Diversification As A Growth Mindset

SPEAKER_01 0:00

When you invest your own uh retirement money, you don't put it all into one stock, you diversify. And I think that's the same idea about selling and uh sales in general.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Welcome to another episode of Sell Me This Podcast. Uh we're gonna jump right into things today, and with me I have Sumir. Um, Samir, I feel like you don't need an introduction, um, but for those of um that don't know you, why don't you just jump right in and uh introduce yourself to our guests? Well, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

I appreciate first of all being here and having an opportunity to talk to you. For those who don't know me, I live in Calgary. I have been living in Calgary for the last eight years. I work for Export Development Canada, I worked for HSBC before that. Um I have an own podcast as well. I'm trying to be out there in the market and be with people. I find that potentially a lot of listeners, some of them maybe, maybe I'm saying a lot and I'm over uh extending myself, but I believe that there should be some people who already know me and hopefully there'll be more after this.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

A couple new faces, and um, and and so you have you know such an incredible reputation um, you know, in general, but also in Calgary specifically. And and you're known for a whole bunch of different things, but what are the things that you're probably best known for?

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Well, best known for, I'd say I'm in the financial industry, so I mingle a lot with other financial professionals, be it those uh with the banks, be those with other financial institutions that are nor not banks at the moment. And uh I find that what I do is a bit unique to the market because I'm a trade specialist, and I find that although Canada does a lot of trade, there's a little bit of a gap in terms of specialists who are able to provide advice and guide people on how to go international, go abroad. So that's I think that's where my main role comes in.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Uh I love it. And and so so what's kind of your background that led you to that point? Obviously, you know, trade, as we all know, is incredibly important. Um, but like how did you find yourself kind of specializing in this in this niche area that's that's so important to the work that we're all doing?

From Banking To Trade Specialist

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Well, you know, it's actually an interesting story because I always say when you're living in the moment, you don't know how the puzzle pieces come together. So my university actually, when I finished it, it was um the the background of it was international commerce and marketing. So I kind of already was in that field. But it was a diplomatic university. I was supposed to be a career diplomat. But then when I came back home to get a job with the foreign office, although they paid for my education, I had a full scholarship. They said, you know, you have to pass a test like everyone else. And I said, you know, what if I don't? And they said, like, there's no obligations for you, which was strange because usually there are some obligations tied with a scholarship. And I thought to myself, you know, I'll go to the banking world. There was a bank that was just starting back home by people who used to work for HSBC, so that got me excited because of that old international branding. Like HSBC for me was a dream uh when I was young, and you know, working at HSBC so many years later was you know a dream come true. But at that point, I thought, okay, I'll go to the bank. I started as a teller, started working there, did a lot of different things because the bank believed that you have to work at different parts of the bank to be able to grow yourself as a banker. So I did credit, I did financials, I did uh relationship management, but I started as a teller. In seven years, um, I actually left as um head of commercial banking when I moved to Canada. So it was a quite a quick career progression. So when I came here, I already had that experience of working with companies, working with them internationally, help them navigate the landscape because Azerbaijan, that's where I'm from, is positioned right between East and West. So a lot of the clients I worked was already looking at Western Europe, Eastern Europe, looking at the Middle East, uh and some other places. So they already were expanding and I was already helping them.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

So if you think about that um, you know, shift uh moving from Azerbaijan to Canada, um, and even the the experiences that you had in terms of kind of what the banking infrastructure looked like, you know, with some of the bones of HSBC and then and then moving into the Canadian banking and finance system, was there some big shifts that you saw as you kind of made that that leap over to the Canadian market?

SPEAKER_01 4:18

I cannot say that there were big leaps, and that is why, as an immigrant who came here, and uh, you know, the typical question people would ask is do you have Canadian experience? I found that at least in the banking world, it wasn't as relevant as it is, let's say, maybe some other fields, like say like medical care, because the technology may be a bit different and whatnot. Whereas banking, it's the same type of financials that you're looking at and analyzing. The products are more or less the same. I mean, operating lines, term loans, you know, deposits. So I honestly didn't find the question of Canadian experience being as dominating in the banking world as it would be in some other fields. So the transition was not that difficult. Where I found the most difficult part is building a network. Because when you're here from university times, you know, you grow up with kids, you have your friends already working at other banks, so it's easier for that career career progression perspective. But when you're building a network just from scratch, it becomes a little bit difficult because you don't know you, and the most important that they don't know you, they don't know what type of a worker you are, they don't know your internal kind of guidance principles, so it becomes a bit more challenging.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

And and so that brings up a really interesting point. You know, I had recorded another episode uh recently where we were talking about the power of networking and the power of some of those networks, especially um as you're you're building your career or kind of going out on your own and launching new products or initiatives. Is that philosophy around networking? You know, if you're thinking about your first uh you know set of experiences in Azerbaijan, what was the networking philosophy the same there as it is in when you come to someone like Calgary? It's actually very different

Networking Culture Shocks And LinkedIn

SPEAKER_00 6:00

in just this cultural aspect.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Like, for example, um, if I were to ask a lady out for a coffee back home, uh, you know, that would be a little bit unacceptable. Oh, right. And uh they would think uh might say things like, you know, I'm married or have a boyfriend, like why you're asking it for a coffee. You're marking up the wrong yeah. Whereas here it's a completely different thing, especially if you're reaching out to a person on LinkedIn, because 90%, maybe even 95% of the time, if you're reaching or someone is reaching out to you on LinkedIn, they have non-let's say personal intentions from that perspective, right? Like they have more about professional perspective uh intentions to go to build your network because people are in different places. And uh here, especially in Calgary, what I found from a networking perspective, people respond. When you reach out on LinkedIn, people say yes, let's go have a coffee. And once they are there, even if they may not be the ones that are going to help you out, they still want to connect you with someone else who might and kind of you know spread the word. And I I lived in four different countries, and I've uh in Canada, Calgary, I found the best place to build a network. The people are just amazing here.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Uh I I love it, and I might be a little biased as well, but I definitely feel the same way. What how do you find that transition? So if you you know, you you talk about some of those cultural differences, and you know, if you're gonna ask, I love the story, but if you ask someone up for a coffee, it could be perceived the wrong way. Um, you know, you you can you show up in Calgary. How do you start to build that network in muscle? Because if you kind of fast forward today, I would say that you know it's it's hard to go a couple steps in a kind of Calgary um business network without bumping into someone that you're at least like one or two degrees connected away from.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Well, honestly, at the beginning it was difficult. Um, it was a lot of trial and error. Uh I adapted my LinkedIn style quite a bit in terms of even the cold outreach and how do I cater those messages. Luckily, I found some good people along the way who also guided me and showed case, you know, this is not the best way to put this message, or you had to adapt it in such a way, and that really helped out. I remember my first networking event, very awkward. I was standing there with a glass of wine looking at people and not knowing what to do until someone approached me and started speaking to me. So it does kind of become difficult at the beginning, but the idea is be flexible, don't be afraid when people provide you with feedback, because some people, when they receive feedback, they get offended by it. But you're in a new country and there's different rules, and it's good that others are trying to show you the way, so allow them to show it.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Totally. And I and I guess the you know the opposite is also true. So, you know, bringing it over to the trade conversation, if if I'm starting to try and do business globally, um, I would imagine that trying to use the same playbook that you grew your business with in Calgary and taking that um to a global market probably doesn't um translate in the same way either.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

I agree. I would also say even if you're moving your business to a different province, it's you're gonna have different issues. And let's put the regularity side uh of things just park that for a second. Let's talk about the culture. Because if you're going to a different province, first of all, the business may be different, the way people you know sign a contract, or you know, in Calgary, people typically like that, you know, handshake approach, where in some other places it may not be as applicable. If you go to the state, which is very similar culturally, each state would have different nuances as well. But when you go to different cultures, one of the my favorite examples is let's say in some cultures, when you give a gift, it is common that you open the gift in front of the gift giver. Whereas in other cultures you don't do that. You take the gift, say thank you, put it aside, and when everyone leaves, you open the gift then. Those types of small nuances are something a person should research before entering a new country. In addition, in some countries, it would be easier to sign a contract with n without ever meeting a person. In other countries, no, they want to have a you know, a sit-down with you, maybe a drink with you, or something else. I remember my uh my

Culture Versus Compliance When Exporting

SPEAKER_01 10:20

dad, he had a business venture in the 90s and he was in uh one of the largest cities in Russia, and that's just because like the proximity, uh Azerbaijan was part of the Soviet Union, so there's also like the language uh like ease and uh understanding the business community. But one of the things he was negotiating a deal, and before he even started talking, they poured him a glass of vodka and made him drink it. You know, some stereotypes are true in that sense, and maybe things have changed in the world since the 90s, but that's what uh what happened, and that's how he had to adapt to be able to get the business that he was looking to get uh at that point of time.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

That's really interesting, yeah. Okay, the the pre the pre-meeting vodka. I haven't haven't gone through that one yet. We should have had a shot before the shot before the recording here. Oh, 100%. There we go.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

I might have made you know talked too much a little bit afterwards, but it would have made for a more interesting episode.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Um and and so if you think about all of those nuances then, is that a lot of the work you do around kind of the cultural um education with with um people you're working with, or is it um the the economic side? Like how do people people find that balance? Because I imagine the the regulatory side, the compliance side, like it's linear, right? It's written down somewhere, it's probably easier, like easy to research, although it does take the work. Um but kind of how do you find that balance between the the nuance of kind of cultural norms and the like checkboxes of some of the regulatory norms?

SPEAKER_01 11:45

So from the regulatory perspective, let's say we're talking about EDC, EDC can do some of that basic regulatory search on behalf of the clients. So that's kind of an easy side, like you said, it's linear. You just need to have someone to be able to do the research on your behalf if you don't have the time. But the cultural one is a bit more difficult because cultures are not written down. So the best thing is that you know, EDC, the Trade Commissioner Services, if we're talking about Alberta, Alberta has a strong trade team as well. And all of these organizations have people in different countries. EDC has about 24-25 different places, but then the Trade Commission is spread out as well. And then there's you know the embassies of Canada in different places. So there are people who are in those markets who understand the culture. So I would always say to the businesses, don't be afraid to reach out to your trade commissioners to talk to them and see how they can help you enter those new markets if you're looking to for that. They can help you not just from a perspective of the cultural aspect, but also getting you in touch with you, uh getting you in touch with some people who you know you might sign a contract or who might you might network with, then they can introduce to someone else and kind of expand and help you enter that new market.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

I love it. So I I'm gonna pivot to a really dumb question, but I think it's an

Why Global Trade Makes Firms Stronger

SPEAKER_00 13:00

important one, um, just from a contextual standpoint. But but like why is global trade so important to the work that like is happening in the province here?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Well, global trade I think is important because it helps a company diversify. You know, it goes back to that old odage about don't put all your eggs in the same basket. If you look at Canada, Canada, although a vast country, the market is limited just because of population. And let's say, let's say you're in the agriculture space, like you grow so much food, but Canada will never consume the amount of food that Canada itself grows. Because again, back to the population. So you have to look at other markets. Plus, it helps you adapt because late maybe there's a recession in Canada, but to a country that you're selling to, it the same recession doesn't impact them. So now you have a strong market outside and you can bring foreign dollars into Canada and help Canada's economy in general as well. It helps you from a perspective of having different sources of income and different currencies, because sometimes, well, we saw how the Canadian dollar devaluated a little bit last year. But if you have a source of income, let's say in USD or maybe Euros, maybe that will help you manage the gap in terms of the devaluation of the Canadian dollar. So it helps the companies be more strong. Plus, I find that export is like a little bit of a mirror so that the businesses and the business owners can look back at the business itself and say what is actually missing. Because when you're growing a business locally, you're doing it and you're not you don't have enough time to fall back and see, am I all my systems in place? Do I have all the right licenses? Am I missing out on something? But when you export, all of those cracks become so much more evident, and you're gonna say, Oh my god, I actually need to fix this, and goes back to making your company stronger in Canada, not just abroad, because you saw all of those nuances when you tried to export.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

That's really interesting. So if you think about it then, it's really that almost holding the mirror back and saying, Okay, well, when if we expand to the US, which seems to be kind of the low-hanging fruit sometimes, um, which I feel like is probably a whole other podcast episode we could dive into um the nuance there, but it's really kind of holding that mirror back and reflecting some of those exact things that you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, and to your point, like Canada is dependent on the US market. I think the last statistics were 74-75%, something along those lines. But I understand kind of the ease of it, right? Like you put things on the truck and then you just ship it to the US and the culture is the same, the language is the same, and it does take a lot of effort to diversify. So hopefully, with uh the help of different organizations that already exist, Canadian businesses will start looking at other countries and try to make sure that not all of their eggs are in the same basket. I remember attending an event, and uh, the economist who was presenting mentioned a very good idea or a very good comparison. He said when you invest your own retirement money, you don't put it all into one stock, you diversify. And I think that's the same idea about selling and uh sales in general.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

I think that makes sense. And so one of the stories that I've kind of heard over and over again, like, and I know you're connected a little bit with the startup community here as well, is that like it's almost the chicken and the egg around kind of when's the best time to kind of um cross those bridges. And so we can use maybe some kind of excuse me. Excuse me. We'll edit that out, Zach.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Um talking to that.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

I guess so. Yeah. Yeah, so we can use some of those examples of like maybe some homegrown um organizations, right? So you I think you've heard the stories lots of like the oil and gas SaaS companies that have to go to the UAE or the States or somewhere else to get some of their first customers. Um but on the flip side, you hear a lot of organizations that just never even think that it's in the world of possibility for them to start to cross some of those international borders. And so and so if you were to advise an

When To Expand And Manage Risk

SPEAKER_00 17:10

organization when the right time to start thinking about opening those doors is, like, is there a right time or is it just so organizational dependent that it's the kind of the answer is it depends? Well, I guess I'm still a banker at heart, and I'm gonna say it depends.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

I knew that one was coming. Well, if you look at startups, first of all, you have to understand what is that you're selling, because it could be a service, but it also could be a good. Sometimes the challenge is it's finding the first adapter, especially if you're trying to disrupt the market. Yeah, I've seen a lot of companies start here but have challenges get that first customer because that's going back to the conservatism in Canada. And we have seen the same thing, right? Like uh it's the same idea why we're so dependent on the states, because of that conservative approach, it's easy to go to the states, like it's uh it's a trope that a lot of people have already passed. Whereas entering, let's say, a market that not a lot of people export to becomes a little bit difficult. So, going back to like from that perspective, some companies will have an easier time going internationally because they will find their first customer who will say, Oh, you know what, I'm willing to take a risk on you. So if it's in your first sale and you believe that that buyer will help you in terms of getting the business started, and sometimes you you will see that will trickle down back to Canada. I remember this story about a lady starting a company here in the pipeline space, a tech company, and she was saying that you know no one wanted to adapt the technology, although although everyone was talking about pipeline capacity, and their technology actually enhanced pipeline capacity by optimizing it, and no one adapted so uh but she found an adaptation in the states, and when she found the one in the states, some of those companies made the Canadian companies uh utilize that technology. So it was interesting to see how it trickled down still back to Canada. But uh there's no uh no right time. It's more about is the company itself prepared to do that leap? Because if you look back, let's say uh if you're producing something in Canada, do you have the right licenses to ship to in your country? If you don't, then maybe it's a bit too early. You need to make sure that you have all your licenses in place. The second question is do you know the logistic routes? If you're unable to move the goods, then even if you have a sales contract, how are you gonna get those things there? And sometimes you need to understand okay, is it by ship, is it by truck, is it by airplane? Maybe airplane is gonna be too expensive for you, and ship is a bit too long. So you have to understand the routes as well. The other thing is if it's services, for example, maybe it's easier. You just you know go online on a Teams meeting and then just uh just do that. So it all depends on the business. So I don't think there's a right or wrong time, it's more about are you prepared to make sure that that sale is going to be successful for the business? Do you know the buyer well enough to trust them if you're small? Because one unpaid invoice can put the business under. Uh to give you an example, I had a client a while back where one unpaid invoice, just one, uh was crucial enough to put the business under and they had to file for bankruptcy. Oh my gosh. So, well, of course, if you're doing 10 million and you have one thousand like an invoice worth one thousand dollars, maybe that's will not affect it, you will be able to absorb it. But if you have a ten million dollar company, you have one million outstanding, that's gonna put a strain on your cash flow and of course impact the business.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Totally. So do you is that one of the big pitfalls that you see um people make as they're considering some of these these global entries? Is that they just haven't done some of that legwork yet, and they just get you know, I don't want to say the easy part is the sale, but they go and they kind of get the big PO or the big statement of work, and uh everyone celebrates in high fives, and then they don't they don't have that infrastructure in place to actually support that customer properly yet.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah, uh I agree. Like there's usually that's kind of the case. Is yes, they get happy, they get excited, the PO, but they cannot perform on that. Maybe they don't have enough machinery, maybe they need to hire some more people, or maybe they got three POs from three different countries, and now there's too stretch and don't know how to prioritize, or maybe they didn't do the research and their goods got stuck in um in the customs and now they have to pay demerge fees. So you know, there's so many things that can go wrong. My favorite example that I've learned when I moved here is the example of Target. When Target expanded into Canada. Like we know how Target is successful in the US and how everyone goes to Target, and it's a big thing. And when I visited the US a couple of uh a year back in For the first time, one of the places I went to Target to see, like, what is this everyone is talking about? And then when they tried to enter the Canadian markets, they made every single mistake in the book about entering an international market. They assume that because it's canned, it's going to be the same, but so many mistakes. And one of the simplest ones that comes first to mind, their ERP system mixed up uh the metric system with the Imperial. The Imperial system, yes, exactly. So some of their goods arrived in like centimeters, and some of their goods arrived in inches, and then when tried to put them on shelves, it all was a mess. So you have to do your legwork.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Yeah. I think my wife still has uh FOMO from not having target here. I know that same as the same as you, each time we make we go down there, we do the obligatory target trip. It's it's always always a good time.

What Great Exporters Do Differently

SPEAKER_00 22:55

And so so what are the some of the things you see companies do really well then? Like I'd you know, maybe logically it's just the inverse of those things you were talking about. Um but but if you're seeing someone really do those um entries in a meaningful way and and feeling some of the momentum come from it, like what are some of the the things that set you know great apart from good?

SPEAKER_01 23:16

I would say in my opinion, that what sets them apart is the ability to double down on what they do well. Like for example, I know that uh Canadian companies have a lot of success in the Middle East. I'm talking about like the oil and gas base because the experience in Canada, the engineers that people have in Canada uh or the companies have in Canada, all of that adds up to the the experience that those businesses in the Middle East are gonna get. So they're able to sell that story. But the same thing in um agriculture, but lately I'm seeing more and more traction in agricultural products um uh and demand rising in uh like the uh Asia Pacific region because they like uh the Canadian quality. So Canada already has good quality standards in different fields, like top of the world, like if you look at that, both from an ESG perspective, both from the way of the technology is utilized and the people that are working there, the people are you know diligent and they don't do work just to get out of it. They make sure that everything is working perfectly. So just double down on the what we do good already and kind of let the world know more about it. That's I think that's kind of what we need to double down on.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

It makes sense. I I I was at an event the other night and it was uh AI and mining event. So really interesting kind of um ro roundtable discussion and topic, and and one of the things that I don't think I even fully had an appreciation for was exactly what you were saying, which is when you start to go into some of these overseas markets, the the respect and and brand, especially on the kind of engineering um side of things here in Canada, um, we have some of the best kind of engineering um and technical talent in the world, it sounds like is especially if they're going through some more education programs. It is respected on a global stage, which I think sometimes we sell ourselves a little bit short on.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Oh, I agree with that sentiment. I think like that goes back to like Canadians being humble. Yeah. And um that I think there's a fine line, and this is actually something I learned here, is you have to sing your own praises. Yeah. Uh like back home, for example, even when we were doing annual reviews and all that, like it's not common for you to brag about yourself. Yeah, and here I found that no, you actually need to learn how to tell your own story, and that's what Canada needs to do a bit better is telling its own story about how things are done and why our products are better. And people will recognize that. And to continue with the example of agriculture, for example, let's say some of the products that we sell, from my understanding, is those same products will not uh that are produced in the US will not be sold in the same markets because US uh farmers add more GMEOs and other kinds of products into the feed system. So let's say the cows, so so the milk is not as clean as Canadian milk, and in some of those markets, those things will be bad. Whereas Canada, it's cleaner and uh they like Canadian goods.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yeah, it's it's interesting when you kind of start to work it back through that supply chain side and everything that fits into it. You brought up a really interesting point around the kind of um humbleness. Um, you know, you you mentioned earlier around some of the risk aversion. Like do you think, and I know this is a broad generalization, that that we're thinking too small in terms of a um, you know, Canadian economy? You mean like too small as the can the Canadian economy might be bigger? Or I think if we think about maybe we'll bring it back to some of the the founders and some of the people that are running these businesses and making these bets and and really going for it. Do you think the aspirations are sometimes too small or too muted based on what the world can look like when we start to open some of those global doors? I think so.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Like personally, I do believe that a lot of businesses or business owners, they're satisfied with what they have, which is not a bad thing. You know, success to different people means different things. Some people it means you know, make going and becoming a unicorn. But I think that's also driven with a lot of propaganda um and like in the media, yeah. That you know, if you're not making a million dollars a year, like you're not successful. Like, no, like to some people that's not the case. Like to some people, success is having a strong family, you know, spending more time with their kids and whatnot. So I like that Canada doesn't defy success by uh others' standards and kind of has its own standards of what success should like. But at the same time, I think sometimes may that may be the reason why the aspirations are not as high. So, you know, I'm making my you know my buck and I'm having a good time. I'm not overworking myself, but like even from uh the perspective of work like the ethics in the US, from a perspective of how much time off you get. I I've heard wild stories about people getting a surgeon and returning back to to work the next day.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

You know, maybe that's a bit too much on the other side. Yeah. So we we need to find that balance as a as a people and kind of society of figuring out where it works for everyone. Exactly. And I guess where it works for everyone individually as well, too, because it's not the same recipe for everyone, too.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

And I think age matters as well. Like when I was 20, yeah, um, like I had a different stamina for work, yeah. And plus I had zero responsibilities outside of work, so I could really focus on that. Right now, though, it's a it's a different stage of life. You know, I have kids, uh, so there's others. So I joke, I you know, I take off my corporate hat, I put on my Uber hat and drive kids around at night. Oh, there you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Hopefully you have a five-star rating.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Well, sometimes they do give me five stars, sometimes not so much. Sometimes they roll their eyes like, dah, you made another dad joke. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

How many of Uber drivers together to make jokes though? That's perfect. Yeah. But I I get it. Like I have a young daughter uh too, and like I think that um, you know, when I was starting my career, same thing. I I probably worked too much. Um, and and I think now like there's just different priorities, there's different balance. Um, you get energy from different things.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Exactly, exactly. And I think that's what should be taken to account. But to getting back to your question, yes, I think there's a lot of possibilities for Canadian businesses, not just locally, but globally.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah. And and so if you think about the accelerator

AI, Paperwork, And Safer Supply Chains

SPEAKER_00 29:35

that is AI right now, um, from everything from a product development standpoint, kind of making your dreams come true, um, but also opening the doors and kind of what's possible. How do you think, you know, what it could be from the portfolio of companies you're working with, or just even from your general experience, how do you think AI is going to start to shape that conversation that you're having?

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Well, that's a very broad topic. Yeah. But let's focus on international trade in particular. I guess the biggest question is how do you use AI? Like it goes back to what a lot of people are talking about, and the ethnical use of AI, and remembering that AI is not an answer, but it's it's a tool. I think that's the most important thing. You can use it to go and find information that you might spend more time to find. You might, but it might hallucinate and give you false answers. So you have to know how to verify that as well. Like even from a cultural perspective, you can go to Chai GPT and say, hey Chai GPT, you know, I'm I'm thinking about entering the Chinese market. What do I need to know about the cultural aspects in China? Yeah. And it might give you good answers, but it might also mislead you depending on um the context that you're giving it, because you know, potentially one part of China may have different nuances than the other part of China. So goes back again to garbage in, garbage out. So you have to know the prompts that you're giving in and trying to understand. My hope is that with international trade it's going to become a bit less paperwork. To give you an example, one of the oldest mechanisms in international trade is trading via documentary credits. This mechanism has been about around for more than 150 years and it hasn't changed. It has changed slightly in a sense that now you know you can do electronic signatures, and uh there's banks like uh HSBC that are trying to digitize into uh that route by adapting like blockchain technologies, but it takes time because what happens is uh you have to make sure that all of those platforms in the supply chain are in the black are in the blockchain platform for them to utilize and talk to each other. If one ingredient is out, let's say the transportation company, then the uh the system is broken now. So hopefully AI will help accelerate those kind of initiatives to make sure that when we're trading internationally, it becomes, first of all, uh um easier and safer. Because if you look at the statistics uh globally and I'm just trying to remember the precise number, but I do remember that it's less than five percent. Less than five percent of all global uh trade is checked. So the containers are open and checked what's inside the container. So potentially, if there's AI, then there's opportunities to make sure that you know there isn't nothing illegal being transported in those containers.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

That's fascinating. So uh that is an alarming stat too. So if you think about the trade of everything, there's there's a lot of unknown of kind of what's traversing our seas at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Oh hundred percent. A lot of unknowns, and some of those unknowns are like very negative unknowns. Yeah. I mean, without going into the details of what it can be. Well, as others can be just slightly bad, because like, for example, overstating the amounts and then you know, writing off some money and and whatnot. So there's could be different things, but hopefully with AI and with those kind of uh control technologies, there will be an opportunity to clean up that and decrease the amount of bad things circulating in on the globe. At least I'm optimistic, let's say.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

I can already tell you you're the uh the optimist here. Um and so if there was like an because there's a couple things I do want to to chat through as well, but if you were to want to leave everyone with with one thing around um the opportunity that sits in front of them with global trade, like I know that the world is a tumultuous place right now. Um what's the one thing you just wish everyone kind of walked away knowing um with the work that you're doing and the insights that you have?

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Well, I think the biggest thing is that international trade is not as scary as it may look. There may be you know documents, new documents that will arise, like the bill of lading, if you've never shipped before and always put things on a truck. But there are experts in different fields that will help you navigate. There's different types of insurances to make sure that you will not fail. And I think that's the most important thing is not to be afraid to try.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Just take the swing, just take the swing, but make a calculated guess. That's the thing. Like, I'm not a person that is a fan of non-calculated risk. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Well, I and I feel like in the not to boil it down to its simplest um component, but I feel like that's all business is is taking the taking the swing of the calculated risk. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

At the end of the day, it is. It just sometimes it feels like it's not, but the successful business people usually calculate before the risk, and they say, okay, I can take this.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Well, and that's you know, I I got the luxury of talking to a lot of really interesting people in that chair right there. And I think that a lot of successful business people, I think, look at it in that way, which is business is one big game of risk management.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Oh, 100%. And I would also add to that an ever-evolving game of risk management. Yes. Because the risk that is happening today may not be happened tomorrow, but more commonly it's that everything that was smooth sailing until today, tomorrow something may happen and it can change. For example, um, like we're we're talking about you know tariffs and whatnot. But the what happened was interesting that then now there are retaliationary things happening. Like Mexico, for example, changed some of their regulations. And I know that because now some companies they need additional documentation to be able to get paid, even if they're not uh US companies. But maybe it's some of their supply chain is in the US. So it takes more time for them to get paid, and that inf uh um uh impacts their cash flow. So what I'm trying to say is that even if something that you may think that will not impact you, there's a domino effect.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Well, and and I you know I've been A, wrestling with this myself and B talking to a lot of different leaders around it, which is you know, how do you how do you keep up with all of the global nuance um and then start to try and map out what are the downstream impacts of of everything, right? So you you know you can see the um layer one effects of some of the tariffs, but then you start to think about some of the regulatory changes and in retaliation that do have material impact, especially if it you know pushes out your payables by an extra two weeks.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

That's the thing. You you it's very hard to control that. You have to be online all the time to see what's happening on the news. Honestly, this may sound bad, but I try to avoid the news as much as possible because there's so much noise as well. Because the biggest question is now it's not just about knowing the information, but also is to understand which of that information is something reliable, not reliable. Is it an opinion? Is it an expert saying that? Is it a fact? So it's it's hard to differentiate what's um what's the reality anymore.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

And and there's such an information overload, too, right? Like I think that there's no shortage of um content, data, opinions, fact, um validated research that come in your way. And so I uh you know it's a little bit of a mental exercise to say like what do I filter out, what do I not, and how do I keep on top of it?

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Exactly. And um to that, I will say try reading uh The Braden New World by Aldus Huxley. Yeah, I love that because one of the things he wrote in that particular book is exactly that the world will have so much information that it will be very hard to navigate the the influx of it.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

I'm gonna have to go back to that one. I feel like I read that many, many years ago, but maybe I'll add it to the reread list.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

It's on one of my favorite books, it's actually one of the books I brought with me back home from back home. Really? Yeah, I had a phase of uh reading uh dystopian future books. Yeah. I don't know why, but I love them. And um but this one stuck more with me.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

I feel like you and I are gonna be fast friends. I feel like that's if you ask even my wife, like what do I read and what do I watch movies about? Like I'm all all about the end-of-the-world hero saga. Um, what happens afterwards, how do people rebuild?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

That's the thing. How do people rebuild afterwards? But hopefully, again, I'm an optimist. I hope that we will not get to a dystopian future. I don't believe in utopia either. I just believe in a world where people can coexist.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

I love

Immigrant Stories And Community Building

SPEAKER_00 38:35

it. And and so I do want to take some time to talk about um the elephant in the room, which is that we're both podcasters. And so this is it's not very often I get to have a fellow podcaster on the show, too. Um so tell me a little bit about your your podcast. Like what what do you do? What stories do you tell?

SPEAKER_01 38:52

So thank you for actually bringing that up. And um, it's called the Global Nomads Podcast. And goes back to again what just said is that people coexisting. Yeah, because one thing I find is the more I talk to different people from different backgrounds, is we're all very similar. Like this is how much different we are, in a sense that maybe we have a different salad in our celebration, or maybe the way we dance is a little bit different. But at the end of the day, we're all humans, and there's so much um commonalities. Even if you look, like for example, like say I'm from Azerbaijan, but um I have I had a colleague uh when I was at HSBC host from India, and we were talking, there's so many similar words in Azerbaijanian and Hindu, and one would never know. But all of those words come from either Arabic or Persian, those similarities. So that means that at one point of time it was all part of the same ecosystem. And when you look at that, like yes, we're all the same. We're all humans, we're all one of the same thing. The news sometimes want to divide us, but that's a different reason. There's reasons why it is done. So what I want to do through the podcast is first of all tell immigrant stories, positive immigrant stories that you know people come here, people building from scratch, and give them advice. Because again, uh, through my networking, I talk to a lot of people, and I find that either they lack the knowledge, so I want to, you know, do the same as people did for me to help them understand the Canadian ecosystem. I want to make sure that they know that the light at the end of the tunnel, because that's the most difficult part. And lastly, I want to show that you know there's a lot of immigrants who come to Canada and they're building together, integrating it as a society, bringing something positive from their own culture, accepting something positive from the Canadian culture and from the surrounding cultures of Canada as well, because it's a melting pot of different cultures. And and do that because having coffees with everyone, I just I don't have enough time anymore.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

It's uh, you know, and uh another I feel like I struggle with a lot of things, but uh that exact thing. You can there's you could fill up your c calendar, I'm sure, every single day with you know, 10 hours of coffees. Exactly. Be the most well-caffeinated person in Calgary, but yeah, be hyperactive. Yeah, you'd be you'd get so much done in the like the half hour before the caffeine crash. Yeah. Um but I I just I love that perspective because our our whole country was built on people coming together with different perspectives.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

And and I think that there's such an opportunity, like, and I love what you're doing, and showcasing some of those stories too. Um, because the world, like, and I think this is something that everyone kind of forgets sometimes, the world's much bigger than Calgary.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

And and I think that we all become better when you you kind of have those unique perspectives that come together. And so thank you for for doing that as well.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

And I it it sets also actually works for the workplace as well. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, if let's say there's five people trying to solve the same problem, but they only have the same background, it's hard for them to go, and this is an overused word, but go and look at the things outside the box. But if you bring someone else, an expert from the same field, but who had different experience, maybe there can be a breakthrough. So, how do you make sure that you leverage that as well?

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Totally. Well, I I love to tell the story. You know, we have a gentleman on our team, you know, he um I think he moved to Can Calgary. He came here in the 80s and then and left, uh, went back home and then came back again three or four years ago. But he's worked on some of the world's largest like data center and construction projects, you know, like multi-billion dollar projects. Um, and that experience, you know, is but as soon as he came here, he he had to struggle getting a job.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

And um, you know, that experience, you know, we had like as soon as it gets brought into a project or a scenario or one of those rooms, like it's just super eye-opening because they they've solved challenges in a different way and potentially at a different scale. Um, and and opening the door to some of those conversations and that talent is just always a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

It is. And uh the same story with myself. Like uh even recently something that happened, like um I got feedback that you know you lack uh leadership experience. I'm like, yeah, but I was head of commercial banking. Is that not leadership experience enough?

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Yeah, well, and and I I don't want to put too fun of a point on it, but I I I imagine some of the numbers are different too. Yes. Uh in a in a good way there. But um I feel like we've we've covered so much ground here today, Samir. Like, um, is there anything that you wanted to talk about that we haven't talked about? Because I feel I feel like we've gone all over the place, global trade podcast.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

Um I think yes, we like we made a lot of ground, but I'm gonna say that you know, putting it all together, uh both from a trade perspective, both from um the podcast perspective, I think that at the end of the day, it all goes down to community building. If you have a strong community around you, be that with the business. I have good examples where uh business owners would utilize their immigrant communities who work for them and uh with them uh find new opportunities for the business, enter new markets. But also when you're an immigrant, building that first community at the beginning is the most important thing, and just showing people that you're welcome here, I think that is very important, and that is sometimes uh not missed. Like, like I said, like Calgary is very good for that, but people forget that we all had to start from somewhere, and um one helping hand can make a big difference in someone else's life.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

So you mentioned earlier around kind of some of those different definitions of success.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

So if you think about kind of your definition of success, is it really in in building that community or kind of like what is that you know, there's never a finish line, but but what's that that success metric for you that you're you're marching towards and makes you get up in the morning?

SPEAKER_01 44:49

For me right now, the success metric would be first of all be that person to like people reach out to, continue being open. Like I'm I think I'm known for being an open person, so hopefully that will not change. But also the most important thing is as my kids get older, like they're 12 and 8 right now, to become a role model for them. I think that's the most important to showcase to them, not through talks, because you know sometimes parents do educate their kids but but only by speech, but not actually walking the walk. So I hope to be someone who is showing them how to be an open person and how to be a person of the community, and that's kind of uh what success would mean to me in uh today's world.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Fantastic. Sumir, if someone wanted to track you down, they wanted to fill up your uh schedule with one of the 10 hours of coffees. Um what's the best way to get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_01 45:50

I would say LinkedIn. LinkedIn is the best way. Some of the questions already I like that I would say would already be on the podcast. So uh it's on YouTube and Spotify, like I said, the Global Nomads Podcast. But my LinkedIn is my my second best friend, and um I'm very responsive there.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Amazing. Thank you so much for the time today. I really appreciate you coming down. This has been an absolute privilege to have you on, and uh I appreciate you taking the time. Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Awesome. If you've made it this far, like and subscribe on YouTube or follow and leave a review on your favorite podcasting platform so you don't miss any future episodes.