Welcome And A Work-Life Shift

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I remember saying if there's one thing that's come out of COVID that's positive, it's that we're so much more accepting that people have lives outside their work.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Welcome to another episode of Stell Me This Podcast. Today I'm incredibly excited to have with me Melissa. Melissa, um, I butchered your company name already three times in our prep, but uh higher talent recruitment. I did it. Um I've been super excited for this episode, and I feel like we've been we've known each other for a couple years now. Um for people that don't know who you are, what's your what's your story and what's your bio?

SPEAKER_02 0:41

What's my story? Uh born and bred Calgarian, moved away, came back, uh, got into recruitment like most people by accident. And um, that was 15 years ago, and started HTR, let's call it, because it's easier. Uh three, it'll be three years ago in June. That's like the abbreviated me.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

So I I didn't realize that we're work our companies are kind of the same age. We're like company twins.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Do you know what's interesting is there are a ton of us that are in like the entrepreneurial world that all started in and around the same time.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

So do you think I'm always kind of a cause and causation person? Do you think that's because we all kind of found each other at the time when we were were out telling our stories at the 100% and just kind of formed a roving group of um entrepreneurs? Yeah. Um, or do you think there was something that happened in in the market or in the world at that time? We're starting off heavy.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

What that would have been 2023?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Uh I don't I don't know. Like that's that's a huge like what what was going on in 2023? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

It seems like a different world at this point in time.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Oh my god. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I yeah, I think I think you're right. Like when I started my company, I was like, I'm gonna hit the networking circuit and I'm gonna hit it hard. And I feel like a lot of us did that. Um, and it's it's so valuable. Like, it's the one thing that I always say to people if you're in Calgary, you need to build that network. Well, your community.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

You've been such an advocate as well of of networking, like not just for your your personal development and the development of HTR, but but also just in terms of even coming to some speaking in terms of some of the the I don't call it advocacy, but some of the leadership work that you do is really all about building that network and connecting other people.

Why Calgary Runs On Networking

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah. Well, being from Calgary, it's always been about who do you know. And it's it's historically been like a couple degrees of separation. And so for people who aren't from Calgary and don't realize that, you can flounder with your business, with your career search, with your personal life if you don't realize how tight-knit the Calgary community is. Like almost two million people, but it doesn't feel that way.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Totally. And and I remember a conversation I was having with someone at an event, I don't know, probably about a month ago. And so they'd recently emigrated here from Europe. Oh. And so they were they were blown away by just the importance of networking and kind of how business gets done here. Yeah. Um, the importance of a handshake, meeting someone face to face, because in the world that they came from, it was like the importance level was down here.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Um, versus kind of what they're finding as soon as they got thrust into this um, you know, ecosystem where like go to events, go to events, talk to people, kind of shake hands and kiss babies. Yeah. Um, seen some of those same experiences in different markets, even across Canada.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Um, the more I talk to people across Canada, the more I realize, like I used to think it was completely unique to Calgary, just because of how we operate it. Um, it's not as prevalent in other cities, but it's it's starting to become. Um, the more I talk to people, they're like, oh yeah, there's tons of stuff happening here. Like I now do the Monday networking post for Calgary Edmonton Kelowna. I'm trying to expand it, but back to our conversation about finding a virtual assistant. Like that's a big chunk of time. So I need somebody else to help me with that. But it is, it's definitely growing across the country. And I think there's something to be said for it because we are all craving community.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

100%. And uh it's also hard to keep up too. So a little bit of a um, I don't know what to call this a guilty admission. I do scrape your um weekly link to um your weekly events and I put it into our Slack channel for all of our brokers.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Oh, that's awesome!

SPEAKER_00 4:40

And so I don't know if I have to pay you a royalty now, but well, you do now that you message it. Well, yeah, so so we l we literally have our Claude pull it up once a week. Yeah. And just and puts it right into the Slack channel. Amazing. Because we have a team of brokers that are saying, Where where do I go? Where where's the best places to spend our time?

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Um, there's no shortage of events, but the right events are the hardest thing

Picking Events That Actually Matter

SPEAKER_00 5:00

to find.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

And that's the thing, like everyone says, How do I know which events are the right ones? And like when I first started doing the networking, I it didn't matter what the event was. If I had the time and the topic was of interest, I went. Because I just needed to, you know, to build that foundation, even though I'm from here, it was a different community. I'd not I'd never been exposed to um when I worked for other people, I didn't do the networking.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Um, didn't quote unquote have to as much, I guess. Um, but yeah, like it's it's one of those things that whether you're an entrepreneur or whether you are working for a company and and looking to build your brand.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

So is it something that you wish you did earlier? Because because I I think that there's this narrative that I hear from people where they're in kind of their uh safety blanket of their full-time job and maybe in a kind of senior leadership role or maybe just an individual contributor and and they just kind of stay in their bubble.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

And then all of a sudden something happens either by their choice or by um some external factor, and all of a sudden they kind of do this mad scramble. Did did you kind of start to build it after as you launched a company, or is it something that you um saw the importance of and just kind of built towards?

SPEAKER_02 6:19

So my I grew up as a people pleaser. So what people thought of me since I was little was uber important. So my reputation in my work then sort of carried that through. Like I wanted people to know that I did quality work and that I was a good person. So like I said, like before personal brand was a thing, I was building it because there was something ingrained in me that that's how you got the reputation and where people wanted to work with you. You know, it goes back to the whole sales. People buy from people they know, like, and trust. So, you know, like it was it was second nature to me to sort of build that brand. The networking piece, um I think I think because I was so caught up and and um focused on having a good reputation, I think it just came. Like clients and candidates knew that when they worked with me, I actually gave a shit about what they were telling me and I gave a shit about them. And it wasn't about, oh, hey Keith, I got this great job for you, let's put you in here. Company might really suck, but it does it doesn't matter. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Just the traditional body shop of like kind of do the kind of matching lines of skill sets and off you go.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah, well, and like in recruitment historically, recruiters have had a terrible reputation because they would they would place somebody, make the money, then go to the company where they stole them from, try to try to like replace them, and then you know, six, nine months later, go back to that candidate because they're a great candidate. Hey, I've got the next great thing for you. So it just, you know, recruiters got a really bad rap. And I was like, uh no.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yeah. Well, I I do want to spend some time on the recruiting, but I I don't want to move away from the brand quite yet. Cause I think it's such an important topic.

Building A Brand Without Faking It

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

And and so as you developed your brand, like I think that in what 2026 now, I think you'd be after hiding under a rock if you didn't think personal brand was important.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

But how do you go about even developing that, right? Because I think that there's so many different kind of facets of what goes into a brand. If you were to be talking to someone that was hiding under a rock and was needing that kind of one-on-one course on um, you know, even defining what they want their brand to be, um, all the way through starting to to build and kind of tell that story, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Um for me, it always goes back to staying true to who you are. And you can't build a brand. Well, you shouldn't, in my opinion, build a brand on fakeness. Like trying to be something that you're not. There's a lot of people out there that have done a really great job at building their personal brand because their personal brand is so tied to their authentic self. So that's the number one thing. Like, don't try to be something you're not. And I've always said, like, if that's not the right fit for someone, then great. You know that that's not your person onwards. Um, so yeah, it's it's the authentic piece, right? And finding the things that you're truly passionate about and and really digging into that.

Unlearning Professional Personas

SPEAKER_00 10:00

So do you think that's scary then? Like if I think about attaching the like reality of who I am to the authenticity of that brand and then going out in the world and telling that story. Yeah. Do people find that scary?

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Yeah. And I think people find it scary because for so many years we've been told to put on a persona. Oh, you're a lawyer, you need to act this way. You're a doctor, you need to act this way. You're a waitress, you need to like there's so much shooting out there that we're all very subconscious or self-conscious about how we're perceived.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

So is some of the conversations, and I feel like we're getting maybe maybe deeper than intended here, but I I find it really interesting. But are some of the conversations you have with people when they're, you know, maybe coming to you or having those conversations around that that branding component, around kind of who am I?

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Uh when I go out and tell this story in the world, um, kind of peeling back some of those layers in, because there's being like if you're talking to someone that has 30 years of experience, yeah, there's you know, 30 plus years of programming and saying, um, you know, here's how you tie your tie, here's how you do your shoes, here's how you do your hair.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

And I know those are all physical things, and then there's a whole bunch of other things to go into it as well. But like, do you would kind of have to peel back the layers of the onion to kind of unlock who actually you are?

SPEAKER_02 11:23

100%. I had a conversation a couple weeks ago with a a candidate, and she's been in one industry and super successful, but um that line of work is is kind of slowing down for her. So she's closing that business, and she said, Okay, so next is I'm going to look at XYZ kind of roles. And in our talk, I was like, Why? What? There was just something that I was like, I'm not, I'm not buying this. So we dug deeper, and then she told me about this other business that she's had going on for however many years, and that that's what she's trying to build, but she feels like she needs this this bridge. And I said to her, girl, like, no, just go for it.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

I I love it. And and so, kind of, I don't want to say like burn the ship's mentality, but just so so what happens in that scenario then? Like, do you like how do you take someone because that's a terrifying leap, right? Because this this is the world that they know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

And they they know they're leaving it and they think they're doing this bridge thing to be able to do this other thing over here. So, and it's interesting because it happens a lot where people people show up with I want, need X, Y, Z. And the more you you talk to them about them as a person, the more you you uncover what's really the motivating factor behind things.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Do you think a lot of people are settling in terms of the the work and life and kind of what they're looking to like, what they could be doing? Like I recognize that there's uh a necessity um around work. Like obviously people have mortgages to pay and bills, and um, you know, life isn't getting any cheaper. But like, do you think that there's a lot of mismatch in terms of kind of the true character of people and maybe what they've been um corralled into doing?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

I think historically there has been. I think I think we live in a time where people are reconciling that a little bit more, where you can show up as your authentic self at work and not be overly judged for it. You know, historically, if you know, there was a professional life and there was a personal life. And sometimes they would, they would cross, but I feel historically people kept them very separate.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Yeah, it would be like when you bring your partner to the uh to the Christmas party. It's like, okay, well, here's the glimpse of my personal life, and now you can see it again in 12 months.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah. And so what was there a a tipping point or a fulcrum where where it started to become more acceptable that you started to see to bring in that kind of personal self at work?

COVID Made Work More Human

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Um well for me, when I really noticed it was COVID. And I I remember saying, if there's one thing that's come out of COVID that's positive, it's that we're so much more accepting that people have lives outside their work and that we are people, that the cat is gonna walk across the, you know, the camera or the kids or the husband or the wife or whatever. And that, you know, you show up for a meeting two minutes late, and it used to be, oh, you're two minutes late. You know, when you're relying on technology, two minutes is like, oh, yeah, something went wrong with something. And and I just feel like we all just kind of relaxed a little.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

I I totally agree. Like, I think about those, those, especially those first Zoom teams, Google calls, and and all of a sudden, you know, you you got to see a glimpse into their life every day.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

And you you'd see these connection points that didn't exist, you know, um, as you can see behind like I'm a Star Wars nerd, right? And so like you'd see, okay, well, someone has a you know a six-foot Obi-Wan Kenobi behind them, and and it's like, oh shit, like I'm also like we have a shared connection, and all of a sudden you can start to build like genuine relationships with with people around, not just hey, we filled out the TPS report. Um, like good job, us.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I remember the one where there um was it on BBC where the the guy was in his office and in walk and walk the kids and the nanny or the mom or whatever. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

I I still feel like the my one of my favorites is the one where I think he like put like a cat emoji on himself. It was and he like he it was one of those, like one of the first like iterations of like really people starting to use AI. And um, as people were starting to get bored of the initial Zoom call, they added like the filters where you could like turn yourself into a cat or a parrot or something. And he he turned himself into a cat during like a like a meeting and couldn't figure out how to turn him off and started like losing his mind. Oh no, because he could not figure out how to not be a cat.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

That's the other thing. I think it taught us patience, yeah, right? Because they're historically in the professional world, you had to be perfect. Yeah. If you screwed up, oh my god, like I'm gonna get fired. And it taught us patience.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

That it's okay, shit's gonna go sideways. And it's most times it's not detrimental. Might be embarrassing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

But it's not fatal, right? And right. Um, I think it's especially when you you go through something, you know, collectively like a COVID, um, or you know, I'm I'm sure we have more things in front of us here.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

But I I just I think that you start to get an appreciation for what's actually important, where your priorities need to lie. Yeah. And and I think can kind of build accordingly, and it it doesn't have to be black or white.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

No. No, which is great. Yeah. Fill the fill the world with color.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

I think I think so. Um, and and so I'm that outlook is is amazing, and I'm sure it translates into some of the work you do as well.

Melissa’s Recruiting Career Story

SPEAKER_00 17:37

So when you think about kind of the transition that you personally had, you know, coming from a corporate um recruiting career. So you you you know have a fairly storied recruiting career before you launched your own organization. Yeah. Um, like what was that journey like in kind of building that career? And then and then how did you decide it was time to kind of make that transition?

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Oof. Well, um, so I was fortunate. I started working for I I call her the matriarch of recruitment in Canada. Um, she was one of the first female business owners of a recruitment firm and um got introduced to her by somebody that we mutually knew, and she took me under her wing. Now, I still jokingly say with love, she's batshit crazy. Um, but she would like she taught me the ropes. And and I still say that I owe a lot of my success because of how she taught me. So started off doing uh a lot of temp placements. What a world that is, uh, and then then sort of just progressed into um working for an oil field services company doing trades recruitment, which I decided I didn't love. Uh, and then went over and did some work uh with uh an executive search firm in a support role there. Uh yeah, and then spent five years with a small boutique firm here in Calgary. And by the time I was just before I left there, I was going into work and I was not a happy camper. And I love recruitment, and so small boutique meaning owner, son, and me. And so I was like, well, nothing's gonna change between them. So I need to make a change and and quit and didn't really know what I was gonna do, and kind of took a month and a half and and figured it out and launched.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

So had you taken like that kind of time off before in your career, like, or were like if you think about you know, you a couple of the stops along the journey, did you have like any significant gaps in between those, or was that your first real chance to to maybe reflect and decompress a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Um, so when I left executive search, uh I kind of took a bit of a breather, but not really. Um started doing some contract-ish work for another recruiter. Um, but yeah, my whole career has been job to job to job to job. So yeah, when I was off for this this period of time, um, it was it was different. It was different. It was the first time in my life where I wasn't concerned about oh my god, I need a monthly paycheck.

Time Off, Boundaries, And Meditation

SPEAKER_00 20:52

So how how did you like find that transition, right? Because I know even even on my side, I you know, it it my wife convinced me to take three months off. And like I will always say Ali's like a hundred times smarter than I am um in a variety of ways, but also probably in terms of how I take care of myself. But um, so I took three months off and it it probably took me a good month to kind of decompress from the world I was in before I started being like, okay, well, I don't I'm not like frantically checking my phone when I wake up first thing in the morning and doing all those things that I think people kind of get programmed to do.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah. Well, even so three years now, I still catch myself that when I'm done at three o'clock, going, Oh, maybe I should work a little longer. And it's like, Well this is my business. I decide I'm done at three o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Write yourself up, it's like Yeah, yeah, you didn't stay till five.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Right? Yeah, yeah. So, and I still do a little bit of justification like, well, I'm done at three today, but Melissa, you know you work on weekends. I'm like, what am I doing?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

And and that's so so funny because I I think that you're so not you personally, but like people are very programmed to value the inputs as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

And and so the input is how many hours a day am I spending delivering widget B?

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Um so ha have you been able to kind of start to shift your mind to more of that? I have that outcome focused time management.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

It's it's hard, but yeah, I have. Um like even yesterday I got up and went for a walk and I needed to be somewhere for 9 30, and was I was just kind of like enjoying my morning, not feeling the pressure. Should have been feeling the pressure, but you know, um, yeah, so I cut myself some slack now.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

But do you feel like you show up differently? So if we think about um the ability to kind of create that different balance, do you show up differently in the time when you are working when you when you create that space?

SPEAKER_02 23:02

I d I don't know. I don't think so. Um I can I'm I'm pretty much an A-type personality. And so when I show up, I show up. And I like I and I'm on.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Um so yeah, I don't know. I've started doing like morning meditation and stuff just because like I was saying earlier, 2026 is this beautiful shit store.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Um and and I'm I'm realizing like I I just need to for a little bit. Uh and it definitely changes how I approach the day.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Interesting. There's been so many people that have talked like in in great detail around the benefits of meditation and all of that. I feel like um I've never been one to be very good at it.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

But I'm I'm not, I found a 10-minute morning meditation. And that's her max. Well, so far. But my like my mind's always going, right? And so the um it's and it's guided. So her voice is nice and calm and cool, and and I tend not to drift as much. And it's 10 minutes, right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Okay, and we're I'm gonna have to get your meditation uh taped there.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

I'll send it.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

And and so focusing back on the so you you take a month and a half

Launching A Firm With Reputation

SPEAKER_00 24:30

off.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

You decide to launch off, um, you decompress, um you decide to launch higher talent recruitment.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

And and so what is that process like? Is it do you do you uh how do you how do you even kind of go from zero to something?

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Um, yeah. So like I I worked with somebody to do like a marketing strategy and brand and all of that. Um, and again, I had built up a strong reputation as Melissa Lyle, the recruiter. And so, you know, kind of on my last day said, Hey, leaving, stay tuned, I'll let you know what I'm gonna do. And then did a big post at hey, here it is, this is what I'm doing. Um, and I knew from talking to other recruiters that it's likely a six-month gap between launching and actually making money. So I was prepared. It's like, okay, well, and yeah, because you know, a lot of searches take that amount of time. It's like a month or two of finding people, and it took me, I launched mid-June, I did my first placement in August.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Yeah. But again, it's because I'd built up my brand and because people knew me and people liked working with me. So prepared for six months, took a month and a half, which was great. And then it just it just kept rolling.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Snowballed from there.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

So the brand sounds like it's really important. Were there any other big contributing factors to kind of what helped with that success early on?

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Um I I think it's just about like the connections you make. Those relationships, if if people enjoy working with you, it doesn't matter where you go, they're gonna find a way to work with you. So I think that's that was probably probably the biggest factor.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

So it's all of that kind of let legwork in the previous X years that you'd spent building that reputation, that personal brand, um, that currency, so to speak, so that when you made that leap, that that people came to you versus you having to send out four million cold calls and yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

And that's that's how valuable your network can be. I mean, one of my biggest clients is an old friend from when we were 20. And, you know, sort of like reconnected when I moved back to Calgary, but periodically. And when I when I went out on my own, had reached out to to them to say, Hey, I need to pick your brain on something. I'm, you know, working in the area you work in, and I have some questions. And they just said, Well, I'll answer your questions, but I'm also hiring you.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Amazing. Yeah, that's that's a great uh picking of a brain.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Yeah, it was fabulous. Yeah, but it's so it goes back to creating valuable real relationships, and people always say to me, Well, like, how do you

Networking With Curiosity Not An Ask

SPEAKER_02 27:48

do it? Well, you just have to like when you're having a conversation with somebody, you actually have to care about what that person's saying.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

That seems uh bizarre. Tell me more about that topic.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Well, I mean, you not everybody you talk to, you're gonna care about what it is they're talking about, right? But if you're having a conversation and something resonates, then be in the moment. And if you're at a networking event and you spend half an hour talking to that one person because something they said resonated with you, do it. It's valuable. You're not gonna miss out on 25 other conversations of no value.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Be in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Well, and I I think one of my favorite quotes, and I've I've shared this with a few people, is you know, to be interesting, be interested.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

And I think so many people, especially at some of these networking events when they're getting started, are so concerned around okay, how do I tell my story? Yeah, how do I let everyone know my new startup idea or the widget that I've built, or that I'm looking for a job that they run in and they say, Hi, my name's Keith. I'm looking for a job.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Um, or I'm a software developer and I've done X, Y. Like, do you know anyone that's hiring for this? And and immediately, like, you've been in those conversations, and um like, okay, thanks, I'll keep my eyes open for you. Tell me a little bit about you. Okay, awesome, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Where I I think that the you know, the opportunity to just like not go in with the agenda, like and just say, like, hi, like, tell me about yourself. Like, and not the traditional, oh, actually, you're probably the expert. Like, so what are what are some of the things that people should do if if people are going to these events to open the door in a way that isn't I don't say predatory, but but but just with like with it where their agenda isn't right at the like.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

So I I have a real life situation where somebody was referred to me, I had a conversation with them, immediately went into this is what I'm looking for, how can you help me? And I I was like, Whoa, whoa. Is is that the same approach when you go to a networking event? And he was like, Yeah. I said, and how's that working for you? Yeah, and and he said, Well, to be honest, not not really well. I said, No, and it won't, because people don't know you yet. So I don't want to help you if I don't know you. And and be of value to that person that you're talking to. And and his response was, but how? I'm new to Calgary. I said, Yeah, but you know things about your like your career, your profession, you know things about the things that are of interest to you. Just have real conversations with people, be of value to them, build the relationship so that they can get to know you and it'll work out. And he landed his his full-time job, I'm gonna say six, nine months ago. And I send him a oh my god, I'm so excited for you. And he said, Thank you, because if you hadn't been so brutally honest, he he would have kept going down that route. He changed his approach. He started volunteering with, you know, like some professional was doing an event. He went and he said to that professional, Can I can I help you the day of your event? And and other types of volunteering work and started building those relationships and being of service.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

I love it. And I I think that the even within that story, the idea of that honesty, I think, is is such a gift, yeah, as well. Because so many people are afraid to ruffle someone's feathers. Yeah. Um that that they'll just give them the pleasantry.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

And so have you always been kind of that that direct? Because I think it's an awesome thing. It's not it's a feature not. I am very direct.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

And some people love it and some people don't. But again, it back to what I said. The people that don't love it, those aren't my people. The people that love it, those are my people. Um, have I always been like that? No, because I grew up as a people pleaser. Um But what I found was that especially with people looking for like career transition or looking for work, they're floundering. They don't know, and nobody wants to tell them the truth because they don't want the backlash of, oh, well, that wasn't very nice, or you know, so-and-so said this. But if if nobody's gonna tell you the truth, you're just gonna keep floundering. And I I don't know, yeah, it just feels wrong. Yeah, you know, if I can share some experience and share some knowledge, it costs me nothing. Why wouldn't I?

SPEAKER_00 33:07

I I love it, and I I think that it's r rarer than you think on that front, too, with that that level of candor.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Yeah, it is. So and like I said, sometimes it lands, other times not so much, but it's I I think it's like I said, a good feature, not a bug.

Handling DMs And Coffee Requests

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yeah. Um so you probably get inundated with with requests for people looking for your time.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Um, and so I'm really curious on how you manage those because like it's incredibly clear that you have this innate desire to help.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

But if you're getting your inbox blown up by 400 LinkedIn messages a day from people that are looking for jobs, looking for advice, um, I know that probably in the back of your mind there's a voice saying, like, I can help them at some point. Yeah. But I like how do you how do you balance those? Because like it's it's just you and there's only so many hours in the day. Like, how do you work through that? I don't want to say prioritization, but how do you work through that triage of of where you're spending your time with all these people that are looking for it?

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Yeah, and and it it is it's hard. Um I used to just like accept, accept, accept. And then it became like, well, why? Why do you want to connect with me? What like are you do you need to connect with me or do you need to follow me? Because two different things. Um it's always helpful if somebody sends you a little note to say what it is, like, why do you want to connect? What's what's the goal? Not don't go in with the first ask, hey, I'm looking for work, I need your help. Um but yeah, I mean it it just it bec it becomes now less about yes, I'll meet you for coffee, and more about I will connect with you, turn the notifications on for my posts when you see something, then we can connect. Because otherwise, like you could be going 24-7 with coffees and you know, phone calls and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Yeah, I have my claude about to run through a thing about like how many beers and coffees I've gone through. And it's like, but it becomes overwhelming. I can it can become a full-time job just to meet with people.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Yes, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

And so I I feel like I'm I'm genuinely looking for your advice there too, and and and balancing that because it's it's a hard um needle to thread.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

It is, and I don't I don't have a structure for who I say yes to and who I who I just say yeah, sorry, not right now to. Um, and even sometimes like I'll accept and it I'll go months before I respond. And then I'm like, I'm really sorry. Yeah, but yet there there is only so much time. I would love to find some way to like figure out how to prioritize that, but then then it becomes less personal, and that's not me.

Using AI Without Losing Judgment

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Well, and so I think that leads us into a really interesting discussion as well around the kind of the personalization in recruitment. And so I'm sure you've heard of AI. No, um how are you seeing AI impact the world of recruitment right now?

SPEAKER_02 36:28

So there's a lady out of South South Africa, uh, Vanessa Roth, and she is amazing with researching all of the recruitment AI tools. So I follow her religiously because she's, I mean, and she's been working in it. So she'll put out tips and tricks, and she put out this whole website where she's gone through and and listed all of the AI tools and ranked them and tested them. It's amazing. Um, I just signed up for one about a month ago that now rather than me having to put all the parameters into LinkedIn or into a Boolean search, all I have to do is upload the job description, the location, a few must-haves, and it goes through and scrapes LinkedIn and then creates a list of candidates for me. So it cuts the sourcing time way down, which is phenomenal. Um, and then, you know, things like using AI to help summarize job specs. If I've got a all of a sudden I've got all of these tech and technical rules that I'm working on that I don't necessarily understand because that's not my background. So, you know, upload it into chat or Claude and kind of like summarize this for me who knows nothing about this industry. And it's great. And then I take it and I send it back to my my client. I'm like, is this accurate?

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Is this correct? Yes. I've like that's an important step.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

Uh yeah. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

It it must be interesting because I think that there's probably such a temptation around automation. Um, to like with the speed things are evolving at you, you know, it's very plausible you could automate a good chunk of the process. Like I've even started seeing like um AI pre-screening tools, and um, like, and so how are you balancing the humanity of it? Because I I feel like there's such a human element to hiring, and maybe that's just an another um conditioning from kind of the the way the world was or is, but like how are you balancing that that humanity of this is someone's livelihood job, a human being with the efficiency, especially being kind of a solo operator, um that the temptation that AI provides there?

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Um I refuse to let AI do the personal work to me. AI cannot does not have a gut feel, and sometimes that's what it comes down to, right? There are a ton of great developers out there that are creating AI recruitment tools, all the power to them. Knock on wood, it will never become part of what higher talent recruitment does, because there's a personal aspect to it. And I think, like for me personally, if I lose that, then what how am I any different than the next person?

SPEAKER_00 39:37

I really like that approach because I I I think that there's still something to be said for the the people side, and you're starting to hear all these stories, especially like on the ATS side of the applicant tracking side of things, where you know people aren't even a layer removed from the logic, and so they don't know why people are being screened out.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

And there's you know, I I understand both sides where there's such a volume of people looking for work. But there's and so they're all applying to the same roles and the same jobs thro through these ATSs.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

But then no one quite knows why, how, or what they get declined, and it kind of goes into this abyss of the internet um for our AI overlords.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

And that's like that's in my opinion, that's the beauty of working with a recruiter who's a headhunter.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

And some some people don't like that term, but it's what I do. Like clients come to me, they say, here's what we need. I don't post it. I might do a post on LinkedIn to let my community know, but I then go out and I find those people.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

So, what would the key difference, like if you were to kind of paint a picture of

Headhunter Versus Recruiter Differences

SPEAKER_00 40:45

both camps? Like, what's a recruiter versus a headhunter?

SPEAKER_02 40:48

So recruiters historically have been where you have a job, you post it, you field through the resumes, you do the pre-screen, you send the resumes to the hiring manager, in my opinion. Headhunters will go out there and find those passive candidates. I can't tell you how many times I've reached out to people and then they're like, Why, why would you reach out to me? I'm not looking. Yeah, precisely.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Yeah, perfect. You're exactly who I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Yeah. Yeah. Well, because I I think that a lot of the like there's a lot of very talented people that are are looking for work, but there's a lot of very talented people that are quite content in the world they're in.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Yeah, and I hear that a lot. And it's like, great. I'm like, I'm happy you're happy. One, if you're ever not happy, let's have a conversation. Two, if you're well connected and you know other people with similar backgrounds to yours, could you please share this with them? So it then becomes like a resource tool.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

And I mean, you can't know everybody. So the more people that that you have that exposure to, the better.

unknown 41:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

I feel like we've covered an insane amount of ground today.

Brand Advice That Filters Your People

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Um, if we think about, you know, going back to maybe the root of the conversation around the brand side of things.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

And if you think about just some kind of salient advice that people could pick up as they're thinking about building their brand, as they're thinking about maybe even just starting to take some of those first steps. Whether it's for their career search, whether it's for you know, um, trying to develop their own brand just in advance of something. Yeah. Um, or maybe they're brand nerds like us. Um what advice would you give them to kind of get started on that journey?

SPEAKER_02 42:38

I would say lean into the things that are maybe unique to you. Um lean into being true to yourself and don't be afraid that that's gonna rule some of the people out. Because that's okay, they're not your people, and then and then continue to work on your reputation, do the right thing, be the person that um that gives a shit. Unless unless you don't, like if that's not your thing.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

I guess uh if you're the uh maybe that's your brand is I'm the person that doesn't give a shit.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

It's yeah, um I had a conversation um last week with another recruiter, and she was like, you know, you've got your brand and so-and-so has their brand, and I'm trying to figure out what like what I could be. And she's like, she's like, I'm Latina, so put it into chat, and chat came back with, well, where where are you red flower in your hair? And I was like, Oh, come on, it did not. So I'm sorry for la like what that's what it anyway, but yeah, like lean into whatever it is that you feel makes you unique and build on that. Yeah, maybe minus the red flower, minus the red flower, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Unless unless uh they were a red flower all the time, I feel like if they were already doing it, but yeah, no, I feel like we've entered a dangerous territory here.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Terrible thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

That is bizarre. Well, there's there's some interesting kind of biases, like and this is a whole other podcast episode.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Oh, that is another podcast, but yes, there are definitely some biases.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Yeah, and and I and I still feel like I think that with some of the AI models, it it gets you to the medium, right? And so I think that there's still so much value in the exceptions on the outside.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Um I think we have to still remember we're all humans, we all have hearts, we all have minds, and use those. Yeah. Like AI is a tool, it's not gonna replace us. So use it as a tool. You know, um, it's no different if you were thinking like when computers first came in. We're gonna eliminate paper by using computers. No, we still have paper. We just have a better way to file our files now.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

It's I grew up similar. I grew up in the print industry. Like I that was my first job. It was at Xerox, and like I remember it's like print's going away, and this was many years ago, and people still have I haven't printed anything in like two years, probably, but I I tend not to unless it's a long document and I have to read it. The passport application, I think I printed. Yeah, but there's some some legacy things there. Um, Melissa, this has been a phenomenal chat.

Where To Find Melissa And Closing

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Um if people wanted to find you and they wanted to um to reach out, yeah. Um they want to learn more about what you do, they want to hire you, they're looking for a job. Um how do they get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Melissa C. Lyle on Instagram. Instagram or not Instagram. Instagram I'm on there too, but I'm not like not active on LinkedIn. I got excited.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

You're everybody everyone goes to LinkedIn and I thought we had our first Instagram profile there.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

I do have it, and I keep being told you need to work on it more, but I don't know. I feel like my clients aren't gonna be on Instagram looking for a recruiter.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

I'm gonna be on LinkedIn. Yeah, I think LinkedIn seems to be the happy place for that.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

So LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

I I love it. Um, any final words you want to share with our listeners?

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Uh no, I think I'm good. Thanks. Amazing. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Thank you. This was a blast. Yeah, it was a lot of fun, and I really appreciate you taking the trip over here.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Thanks for the invite.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Cool. If you've made it this far, like and subscribe on YouTube or follow and leave a review on your favorite podcasting platform so you don't miss any future episodes.