Doom Spending And Hopelessness

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This concept that, you know, young people today feel so disenfranchised. And there's this um like a hopeless feeling like they'll never get into home ownership, that that's just that ship is sailed. It's not something that's accessible to them. So they say, well, I might as well just spend all my money and just live live large today because I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. It's almost this way of combating the uncertainty.

Meet Letitia And Her Startups

Keith 0:30

Welcome to another episode of Stell Me This Podcast. On this episode, we dive into a fascinating conversation with Letitia Miller around financial literacy, running multiple startups, and what it's like to build a business in Calgary. Plus, my dad gets a shout out right at the beginning of the episode. I hope you enjoy. Welcome to another episode of Stell Me This Podcast. Today, um I am super excited to have with me Letitia Miller. Uh Lutitia, I'm just gonna jump right into things. Um why don't you introduce yourself and tell our guests uh who you are?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Uh perfect. So my name is Letitia Miller. I'm the founder of Waylay Financial, uh, which is an employer-sponsored savings program, early days startup. I'm also the chief strategy officer of another startup called Atmos Renewable Recycling, and uh where we're taking end-of-life wind blades and solar panels and turning those into really exciting new products.

Keith 1:19

And what do you do with your free time?

unknown 1:21

What free time?

Keith 1:23

Because one startup is is a lot, two startups is is uh infinity. Yeah. Um and then and then I I know you also do a whole bunch of other stuff out outside of those two um ventures you're on. Um do you work 24 hours a day?

SPEAKER_02 1:39

It's kind of like because yes, certainly I do have my day job. I have the stuff that keeps the lights on. And then um yeah, there's a lot of, you know, I'm blocking off weekends to just sit and you know, you know, when you can like get yourself into a really steady like Excel hole or just like be developing pitch decks, that type of thing, um, then just like unbroken, concentrated in the zone time. Uh and then uh once things start to you kind of get them rolling, and then it's almost like sand between gravel. It just fills in the the gaps in between

Discipline Without Rigid Structure

SPEAKER_02 2:10

in between meetings, in between calls, you know, calls on your drive to and from work, things like that.

Keith 2:16

Are are you pretty disciplined? Like I know there's a kind of the big rocks theory, right? Which is like here's the big stones that we're working on. I think there's the the YouTube video that I think everyone's seen, which is you know, if you put the sand in first, um, all the rocks don't fit. Like, are are you pretty disciplined? Is like is that how you're able to kind of move so many balls forward at the same time?

SPEAKER_02 2:34

I think that I'm really disciplined. I'm very, I'm less structured. So more disciplined, less structured. So, in that I am deadline driven, um, I'm kind of compelled to to meet that, you know, that commitment that I said that I'd I'd make, um, how it gets done, that's where the flexibility comes in. So that's where your evenings, weekends, and all the spaces in between uh fits in.

Keith 2:57

I

Waylay And Payroll Based Saving

Keith 2:58

love it. And so so tell us a little bit about Waylay. So like I I remember when you and I first chatted, um, you know, I I I love the idea of what you're building. I think it's a big problem that you're solving. Um how did you find yourself in that space?

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yeah, certainly. So a bit about Waylay, it's an employer-sponsored savings program. So it's really an opportunity for employers to support their employees in their savings goals as well as their spending. So it's helping employees to save for targeted big purchases. So that could be travel, that could be, you know, sports gear, or it could be a down payment for a house. And it's offering a bit of that structured support all the way from the saving through the spending journey. We know that right now there's we're talking about record levels of consumer debt. Every algorithm that you meet is uh designed to make you um spend faster, impulsively. It's all about um instant gratification. And we really want to change buying habits. We want to, we want to remind people what it is, like that delayed, the satisfaction of delayed gratification. What it does it, what does it mean to set a goal to work towards it and then to achieve it and remind people how good that feels. But we know that they're there people need a little bit of structure and support along the way. So we're approaching it from the point of greatest impact, which is payroll.

Keith 4:21

That makes a lot of sense. And this is uh gonna be a weird story that I'm gonna draw on. But I I remember when I was a kid, uh I got really into mountain biking. And I I still remember to this day I wanted this Norco Bigfoot bicycle, and it was $800, which is uh expensive bicycle at the time. I think my dad at the time made a joke that it was more than his first car. And uh I I remember, you know, be like, Dad, can I buy this bike? And he's he made and he's like, You go this is the time you get a job. I think I was like 14 years old and I got a job at Wendy's. And he's like, When you he's like, I'll map, I'll split half of it with you. But he's like, you need to save up the 400 bucks first. And the second you have your 400 bucks, come to me and we'll head over to the bike store and we'll pick it up. But um I learned really, you know, at six dollars an hour at Wendy's, um, all of a sudden you start to get an appreciation for what that $400 or $800 um felt like. And that I I you when you say delayed gratifications, all I hear is my dad in the back of my head growing up being like, delayed gratification, delayed gratification. Um is it a problem right now that you're seeing where there's there's a lot of desire to have everything now, yesterday, keep up with the Joneses.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Completely, completely. It's it's all about instant gratification. I love that you brought up your dad because you know, we were doing our market validation and we're talking to employers and we're talking to employers who are really well connected to their employee base. And what we heard from one of the interviews, he he said, uh, you know, not everyone has that person in their lives growing up that was reminding them, you know, to build some of this discipline into their lives. So if this is a product that could help them be play that role, that play that mentorship role, that's what they were after. So it's super cool that you brought that up. Yeah and um no, everything is, you know, um buy now, pay later. If it's if it's not, it's first off, we got this layer of credit. On top of credit, we've got, you know, paying for easy installments. On top of that, you've got insurance just in case the the bad things happen. So you can you can insure your $50 purchase that is on credit, so that you know, if if something bad happens in the future. So it's all these layers of it. This is the cost of immediate gratification. It comes in insurance costs, it comes in interest costs, and when people are making a purchase, they're not looking at that whole cost, they're just looking at what is it gonna cost me today.

Keith 6:46

Yeah. Well, and I think that there's this whole conversation sometimes around like not what is the cost of a purchase, but what is the monthly payment.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Completely.

Keith 6:56

And you know, this is something that I I feel really strongly about too, which is like I think financial literacy has kind of gone down the toilet um for a large portion of the population.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Absolutely.

Keith 7:07

Because to your point, what is that cost of a purchase? Sure, you know, um, if I go buy a hundred thousand dollar truck or car, um I can stretch that out for 15 years. And the great news my payments only X amount, but I you know, it's at some point my I can never sell the car because it's the the the value of the asset is still nowhere near the value of what I still owe on it.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Completely. And that that sometimes happens relatively quick. You know, it's it's only a couple of years in until you're underwater on that purchase. So, you know, total cost is is a concept that you know isn't uh I I wouldn't say um there's full literacy around that. Most people live on you know three to four thousand dollars of revolving credit, meaning that's their balance that they're keeping on their credit cards every month, and it's just normalized now. So we're we're really wanting to just shake things up a little bit. And there's kind of this, I was thinking about this. There's almost like um, I'm sure you've seen it, there's almost this trend to towards things that are analog, things that are old school. Um, and it's everything from, you know, give me a hard book that I can hold on to and turn the pages, give me a record so I don't need to be on some digital music streaming. Um, this seems sort of in line with that. Waylay seems sort of in line with this return to practicality, a return to, you know, give me something tangible. And sometimes that tangibility is is just I see my goal, I see myself, you know, working towards it. For you, it was like, okay, I've got some dollars in the bank. I'm I'm gonna get to that $400. And then at the end of the day, it's the satisfaction of holding that purchase in your hands or going on a trip and heaven, you know, heaven forbid, you come back and you get to enjoy the trip because you're not coming back to debt.

Keith 8:55

Well, and there's so many people like and you talk about enjoying your purchase as well. Like I think there's some science, and you're probably well more versed on this than I am. But but the longer you delay some of those purchases, the actual the greater the gratification actually is. Completely. And you don't have that kind of uh that post-purchase, you know, depression's probably a strong word, but that kind of post-purchase guilt when you look at the credit card statement or the um monthly amortization can have this holy shit where you you've you got all the joy out of it, but you actually have paid none of the price for it.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Completely, completely. So we're all after that dopamine hit, and then directly after the dopamine hit, the buyer's remorse sets in, and then then the credit card bill shows up and yeah, it just kind of wipes away all of that joy.

Keith 9:41

So is a lot of the work you're doing education then? Like, because I imagine that um you know the the the platform and kind of what you're you're working is is helping to create some of those structures around it, but is a lot of the work just kind of changing the the desire or the mindset of how people um spend their money?

Education Social Saving And Gamification

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Yeah, uh a huge part of Weile is the education component. You you rightly identified earlier the financial literacy is something that uh it's not taught in schools. Um we hear that regularly. Uh so what are the tools that we can give people? Um so there's a full education platform, and in addition, we recognize we're up against every other algorithm that's designed to make you spend. And um, and so what are we gonna do to combat that? And so we incorporate things like the social aspect. So because Waley is an employer-delivered platform, there's an opportunity for colleagues and coworkers to be working together to either share their goals, there can be team goals, um, there could also be, say, team recognition and bonuses. So instead of at the end of completing a big project, everyone gets a Starbucks gift card. Uh, they get a you know, a a boost to their waylay account. And that's something that everyone is working towards together. Um, and there can also be a reciprocal. So, you know, if you and I are working together and I know that you're about to get married, I can throw $50 into your waylay account for you know, for your wedding. Um, and then there's a gamification. We from our market research, we recognize that these are the things that actually work, you know, these uh these are the things that make people come back to the platform, be engaged with their goals, you know, come back for some education and just incorporate all of that. So at the end of the day, we're all speaking this really strong financial language.

Keith 11:30

I I I love it. And so I I can see crystal clear why it's so important for the these these populations of um employees that you know you can see how it kind of pays dividends in their lives.

Why Employers Pay For Anxiety

Keith 11:44

Um, if I'm an employer looking to invest in this platform um for my team, kind of what's in it for me?

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Great question. So a lot of what might not be known widely is that employers are paying the price of financial anxiety. So when people start to get stressed out about their money, often that's when they start looking for a job. And it can be a major trigger to somebody going and leaving their place of employment employment for maybe 50 cents or a dollar more an hour because when they're in that you know survival state of mind, that's all it takes to have them leave. Waylay offers an opportunity for employers to really connect with their employees to be able to contribute in ways of matching and recognition to the things that actually matter to the employee. Again, going back to, you know, is it a pizza party or is it a contribution to something that you're saving for because you actually want that, you've already identified that that's something that you're into. And so through doing this, employers get to play that role in their employees' lives and employees get to feel like their employer actually cares about them and what's going on.

Keith 12:52

Totally. And I can see how it becomes hyper-personalized because it's not, you know, everyone gets the pizza party.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

Yep.

Keith 12:58

You know, maybe I hate pizza.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Yep.

Keith 13:00

Um, you know, maybe I'm gluten-free, who knows? But uh, but it can be something that really calls out to that individual person.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Completely. Yes.

Keith 13:08

And so how how's the journey been so far? So like what when did you when did you launch the when did you launch? When did like what's the story been?

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Yeah.

Startup Highs Lows And Pivoting

SPEAKER_02 13:15

So um way lay was actually thought up about five years ago. It was inspired by my grandma who told me about the old layaway programs. I don't know if anybody remembers those, but used to be able to go down to a store and put $10 down, and then every paycheck you'd go and you'd uh put $10 more until eventually you'd paid it off and you get to take your thing home. And she told me that that's how she had the very nice outfits that she had. So quality was important to her. Uh, and that inspired WeLay uh a number of years ago, but it I wasn't really in a place where I could devote the time and attention to it until this year. And then um I identified a co-founder, uh Elida. She's incredible. Um, I invited her to join me in creating Weilay a year ago, and we really kicked it off in January. Uh, the journey has been, it's it's startup world is always exciting. It's super highs, it's super lows, it's like being at the casino. It's you know, it uh it's it's this brain worm that's that's in your head and you're compelled to do something with it. Um and it takes all of your time, all of your money, and all of your attention, but it is so exciting and so rewarding, and you you you love it like a child.

Keith 14:32

Yeah, and and I think that like is this your first startup?

SPEAKER_02 14:35

No, no, I've um I've participated in probably around five different startups in different capacities. Through that, I've I've had the opportunity to learn from founders and learning everything from you know, different structures, uh different involvement uh capacities, who's required on the core team, what do you need in terms of advisors, both official and not. Um, and then into the fundraising journey, which is you know a whole new adventure. Um, but yeah, there's just something really engaging about it. Obviously, you have to be a person who likes excitement. You also, I think, have to be a person who is optimistic. I think all entrepreneurs need to be optimistic. That's the only thing that can drive us to say, hey, there's a problem, and I am positive that I can solve it. There's a solution out there. So yeah.

Keith 15:27

Well, and I think if you, you know, you talk to a lot of really successful entrepreneurs, there's almost that blind optimism sometimes where you just you kind of have to put the blinders on on certain things and just and trudge forward, and the only direction is forward.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Absolutely, absolutely. I shared with you earlier that uh Welay has been going through our market validation. So we're talking to anybody and everybody in the space that we think has uh an opinion that's gonna matter to us, and not all that feedback is positive. You know, so we've we've received warnings from some people like, hey, these are concerns of mine. Some people kind of express um, you know, varying levels of whether this this is a great idea and this is absolutely necessary to I'm not sold on it. But all of that is valuable, and you have to have enough commitment. This is what we're seeing is uh we have to have enough commitment and love for the thing that we're building, but enough realism to understand that you know my baby isn't the cutest baby, despite what I might think, and so have to be willing to listen and to pivot where necessary.

Keith 16:32

Well, we were recording another podcast earlier today, and that was a big part of the conversation, which was the idea of kind of falling in love with the problem, not the solution. Completely. And and I I love what you said, which is you know the problem exists. Um, but but maybe the exact recipe, how the ingredients all come together, tweak a little bit. Okay. And not necessarily being, you know, this is my um, you know, pardon my pun because it was an idea from your grandma, but like this is my grandmother's recipe, I gotta follow it exactly to saying, okay, like we're gonna figure out how to what the proportion of everything that goes in.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Absolutely, absolutely. Like we kind of this was born out of a big idea is that people need to change their spending habits, not just their savings, but their spending habits. How can we help them do that? And the approach that we're we've currently taken is that well, we think we can do that best through a payroll. And maybe that's not the way, but we're we're gonna explore it until until we kind of get the right fit because ultimately at the end of the day, that problem still exists and we think that we can change it.

Keith 17:39

So as you're going through this process, I I I know it's not easy, but uh how do you balance that um stubbornness that's required? And I think stubbornness might be the apt word to push through some of these roadblocks with with also not pivoting every like 15 seconds with each morsel of feedback you get. Because I I know it can be really appealing to say, okay, well, someone said this, we'll tweak this, someone said this, we'll tweak this. Like, how do you how do you create that balance between what you know to be true and and some of the external feedback that you're getting?

SPEAKER_02 18:10

That's a really great question because it is quite easy. You can talk to someone, you could find yourself kind of doing this fishtail. Um, and I think that's where gut and intuition comes comes in. I there have been times where I've left a conversation and thought, like, oh man, we need to, this is what we need to do. You know, they're absolutely right. But then when you sit with it for a moment and you feel it out, you get back to, you know what, there's elements that I really appreciate that they they shared with me, and I think I can incorporate it here. But um, but you you sense in yourself where where you actually need to be.

Keith 18:48

Yeah. No, and I I I you know, as you're telling those stories, like I I reflect on even our experiences where we've been building deliver digital. It's it's it's so appealing sometimes to say like it's almost the easy, it's always it's easy to be fixing something and it feels like motion. And and sometimes the harder path is actually sticking with the current path.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Totally. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Keith 19:11

Yeah, and so I I had some really good advice from uh a friend that's been quite successful um in the startup space where you know he advised me, you know, try to find themes, write down things and then kind of batch them, and then don't try to act on everything immediately. Where you can kind of you know make the to-do list review it once a month versus daily.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Absolutely. Yeah. I um a long time ago I played in the Calgary Corporate Challenge. I don't know if you're familiar with that. Oh yeah, yeah.

Keith 19:37

Well, which which sport did you which just it was volleyball. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

And it wasn't great.

Keith 19:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

I think I I um actually they tried to cut me from the team.

Keith 19:45

Oh my goodness, you were you were the healthiest scratch.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yeah, exactly. But uh some of the feedback, my coach who actually was a really good friend of mine at work. Um, he, you know, in watching us play, and he was a great volleyball player, he said, Letitia, just pause. You know, when you see the ball coming towards you, don't react immediately, just pause and see where it's gonna go first before you react. And just like you said, you know, have a great idea. Doesn't mean you need to act on it right away. Um, and so you know, being an action-based person, that's the impulse is to jump on it right away. But sometimes it's like Letitia, hit pause.

Keith 20:23

Yeah. Yeah, I know. And it like I said, it can be it can be appealing sometimes to just kind of be in motion. Um, so so what's your your story then? So um you you've arrived at the spot where you're um you know advising some organizations, you're building a couple startups, um, you have a few extra hours in the day. Um how do you how does Letitia arrive where where you are today?

From Construction To An EMBA

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Uh well, long journey, long, interesting journey, I like to think. But um I started in construction, in industrial construction when I was 20 up in Rainbow Lake, Alberta. So way up in the north in the cold. And um, we like to say started on the dumb end of a shovel and uh came up through construction that way. And I loved it. I loved every single step second of it. Um came up through quality and then started to focus in on project management. So full scope project management office. That means, you know, scheduling, uh, cost management, performance analysis, and full scope sort of project management. Um when I sort of hit the ceiling where, you know, a person wants to get into the executive level, I looked around, recognized that I wasn't going to get there without an executive MBA. So I did my um my EMBA through the Smith School of Business at Queen's University in actually beginning of COVID. Super lucky that I just signed up in April of COVID, had no idea that we'd be where we were for a few years. But the fact that it was delivered entirely digital was incredible for me in my life at that time. What I didn't know is I thought I was going into my EMBA to get access to the executive circle to maybe be a VP of something, maybe you know, move on from there. Um, what I didn't know is I'd be given the language for entrepreneurship. And that's where I truly found the love and came out of that saying, I know how to do this, you know, not in terms of I know everything, but hey, I can do this. And I think that I have the language enough to get me started to start asking the right questions and to start getting involved with other people's startups and the entrepreneurship journey. And that's sort of it grew out of there.

Keith 22:37

So so I've talked to so many people that have gone through um, maybe not the exact trajectory, but where they they've built up this knowledge base, this set of skills um for and with someone else. And then they they decide at some point in their career to say, I want to bet on myself, I want to bet on um, you know, these ideas versus just the the time that I'm committing to someone else. Like how was that leap for you to kind of make that shift from someone that really was was I don't want to say a cog in the machine, but someone that was contributing to somebody someone else's larger vision to really taking that leap to bet on yourself?

SPEAKER_02 23:15

I've always had this thought that um if I don't do it, someone else will. And if it's a problem that needs to be solved, like somebody's got to. And I kind of ended up getting frustrated at seeing the problem continually not solved. So you kind of I guess I was kind of pushed into this spot of okay, well, somebody's gotta do it, might as well be you. Um and so in terms of betting on myself, that's a hard one. We're gonna cut this apart out.

Keith 23:46

I ask I only ask this number of questions. Yeah, no doubt.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yeah, in in terms of betting on myself, it's really um for one, I've got my mom in the background saying that I can do anything. She's you know, just this undying uh wealth and of of positive reinforcement. Um, but also looking at okay, I've got the practical tools, you know, I know how to manage projects, I've I've got the the business acumen, I've built companies, I've built them up and launched and done all the things in between. So um if I if I look at my C V, everything's there, the recipe is there. Um, so might as well just jump ahead and do it.

Keith 24:29

Are you are you happy on the timing? Like, are you glad you did it when you did? Um Do you wish you did it sooner? Do you wish you did it later? Like I know timing time hindsight's always 2020, but but are you happy about how everything worked out from a timing perspective?

SPEAKER_02 24:45

I'm really happy, actually. Um I did my EMBA when I was 40. Yeah, and I feel like I had a a depth of experience that I could actually apply it to. If I look back and I had approached that 15 years earlier, I feel like it just would have fell through my hands like sand because I I didn't have anything to adhere it to. I didn't have anything to adhere to the information coming in to practical examples in in life. So I feel from that perspective, the the timing was perfect. Um, also my boys were teenagers at the time. So, you know, from the motherhood standpoint, this isn't something that I could have done earlier. So I firmly believe the universe puts in front of us what we're what we need at the time, and it it worked out in a way that honestly I couldn't be happier with.

Keith 25:39

That's incredible. Um, when you when you think about the the journey that you're on, um what's the thing that excites you most about kind of what you have in front of you?

Why Calgary Helps Founders Win

SPEAKER_02 25:49

All the possibility. Um there's just uh so number one, I think that right now I have an incredible network. Calgary is this place that is so fully supportive of entrepreneurs, of people who are just willing to like pull up their socks and and you know say, I can do it. Um, people who are willing to support each other, to do intros, to to give feedback. Um so I'm I'm really excited about the network that I've built. And it feels that it's at this point of maturity that gives me more confidence to launch from. Um, some other things that are happening in in sort of our sphere right now, um, big focus on Canada and major projects, as well as you know, attention on the defense sector, which one of my other startups there's uh inroads there. Um these are things that matter greatly to me. I'm a huge Canadian patriot. Um, always have been served in the military when I was, you know, a late teenager. Um so an opportunity to get to contribute to that, both from uh, you know, a corporate Canada perspective, but also a Canadian security and defense perspective, that just makes my heart warm.

Keith 27:05

Yeah, I I think there's been so much like like I do want to dive into the Calgary conversation because I like I'm I'm a fanboy about Calgary as well. And I just I was having that conversation this morning with someone, which I I feel like it's a city of people with their handout to help versus their handout to get something.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Oh, I love that.

Keith 27:21

And thank you. Um and and I just there's so many kind of forces both internal and external that have come together that that I I would you'd have to argue pretty hard to convince me that there was somewhere better else to launch a business in Canada.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Oh, completely.

Keith 27:38

Um You know, I was I was having uh um a coffee with someone in Vancouver a couple weeks ago, and you know, they're they're talking about the idea that you know they launched a startup, but it's really terrifying to launch a startup when the cheapest house you can buy is a million and a half bucks.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Exactly.

Keith 27:52

You know, so we have we have affordable housing, we have um, you know, a supportive ecosystem. I think that there's some really interesting kind of um government innovation happening around the supports for startups uh and and businesses. And so I I you'd have to convince me pretty hard to say somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Oh, completely. That cost of living factor is something that can cannot be overstated. Yeah. The fact that if you've got some wiggle room in your budget at the end of the day that you can actually work with, um, that's it's entirely necessary because you know, before you start attracting the attention of even angels, yeah, you've got to you've got to have some skin in the game. Yeah. So we're incredibly fortunate that way.

Keith 28:30

Well, and you know that that leap's terrifying regardless, but I, you know, I I think that some of those external factors help sometimes. I I also really love what you said about you know that idea of context, um and the idea of of kind of building some of that experience in that context before you take that leap. Um and and I'm curious on your perspective, because I've had a couple other folks that are we'll say like early stage in their lives, you know, early 20s, that are that are thinking about doing like launching something, but and the ideas are there, but I I think there's something to be said for kind of, I don't want to say learning on someone else's time, but but learning from other people that have been there, done that, and gaining some of those reps before you take that leap.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Like I think that it's hugely invaluable, absolutely. You know, if I think back to my days in uh I won't name who, but you know, major construction uh like essentially construction firm, um, what I learned there just in terms of interpersonal skills and leading a team, um, as well as the the you know, the the um hard technical skills, um, that was great. What I learned in terms of um almost translating language from one group to another. And that's critically important because now as a startup founder, I don't come from a fintech background, but I need to have the language to be able to convey uh between different stakeholders of what we're working with. We need to, as a as a fountup starter, you need to be able to talk tech and development, but then also talk investment and structure. Um, and those aren't things that you just naturally know out of the gate. Yeah and uh yeah, so learn on other people's dime. Say yes to every opportunity because you don't know what you're gonna come up away with that's gonna be valuable later.

Keith 30:19

Yeah. And and so what you're talking about almost, and like I can even see some of the similar similarities between your experience and even the narrative of of what you're building around, that idea of almost that delayed gratification, too. Um and maybe that's just more of a societal theme that we need to kind of wrap our heads around. But I think that that idea of investment now for later return um seems to be something as like societally that we're we're rewarding less and less, or maybe we need to kind of flip the fulcrum the other way.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Absolutely. Uh, you know, like I'm sure you've noticed there is this uh return to stoicism and you know, stoic principles are really gaining popularity right now. And I think it's because people feel like we inherently, and I'm wild gamble, I'm just speaking on my own behalf, but I when I look at society, this is what I I see. I feel like we're all feeling a little bit hollow. Yeah, things aren't as satisfying as they should be, which means we're just reaching for the next thing and the next thing. Um, but if we can learn to be happier and more content with where we're at and and appreciate it for what it is, appreciate today for this stage in the journey that it is.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

And that you know, the the real goal, the the goal is to come, and you know, the real prize is out there, but today is a gift. Let's appreciate it.

Keith 31:37

And and I think that's you know, easier said in in practice sometimes, like it's especially with the kind of the wiring of everything and kind of the pursuit of more, and even the way that our economy is built on consumption, and and um you know, never-ending growth, right? And so if you don't have more people to sell to, you need to sell more people, more stuff. Yes, and so like there it's you're definitely kind of fighting like a salmon swimming upstream against some of these forces.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Completely, yeah. Who out there is gonna tell you, no, we've sold enough. We've sold enough, our revenues are enough.

Keith 32:07

Yeah, no, we're good. We've we've arrived. Thank you very much. But maybe next year.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Yeah.

Keith 32:12

Um, and and so what are some of the things like because I know we haven't talked too much around the the advisory work you do as well. And so, you know, you have you've had the opportunity to wear a couple different hats. You know, you you get to walk the walk with the startups, you get to you've you've built some of your um experience in some of these larger organizations. Can you tell me a little bit about some of the advisory work you're doing um on top of your two full-time J jobs?

Indigenous Equity And Call 92

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Yeah, certainly. So um I am Kree Mety, member of um Metis Nation of Alberta, Upten Swak. And uh I I am fortunate in that I get to advise in the um Indigenous economic empowerment area. So supporting First Nations who are taking equity stakes in major projects, um, which is a marrying of both who I am plus my background in construction. Uh it's an incredibly rewarding space and and fast moving if we're to take a look at, you know, where was indigenous participation in major projects even 10 or seven years ago versus where it is today. It's just incredible. So I get to again play that translator role in, you know, between sitting between industry and indigenous communities and get to sort of cross-translate what are what are some of the the shared objectives, what are some of the the goals of each party and how can we achieve those together?

Keith 33:35

That's incredible. And I I, you know, don't argue to know anywhere near about um the same amount about that world, but it's it seems like there's progress being made, especially in terms of participation. Um, like do you think that's coming from a legislation legislative standpoint? Um, do you think it's coming from a uh an investment standpoint? Like where is some of that momentum coming from? Because I think it's a really positive thing.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

There's a few different areas. So so number one, you know, can Canada when they dove in on the Truth and Reconciliation Council and the commitments um that that came out of that, um, you know, number 92 was huge for the business community. And it really kind of opened everyone's eyes, created it created a conversation around Indigenous awareness. What is some of the history that we need to consider in context? Um and what started maybe as a government initiative, I saw, you know, really coming from the hearts and minds of people in industry, people were asking the questions because they're genuinely curious and genuinely cared, not because the government told them they needed to care about call number 92. Um, and then from the investment side of things, really, it's a risk mitigator. And uh, you know, investors recognize, capital recognizes, that if you don't consider number one, the legislative requirements, but number two, the voices of rights holders, then you are merely carrying on your back this this risk that one day it is it is if it's not gonna delay you up front for a multitude of reasons, then it's just this invisible risk that you're gonna carry until one day it'll materialize.

Keith 35:16

Yeah, I I really like how you said that. And I think that it's um the work isn't done um by any way, shape, or form, but I think that the at least the arrow is pointing in the right direction.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Yep, absolutely.

Keith 35:27

Um and and so do you do you see those kind of multiple worlds like you you seems like you wear infinity hats. Um do you see those ever just kind of collide? Do they come together? Um, do you do you feel like uh Clark Kent where you kind of have to put on your superhero cape and kind of change from one life to the other? Like how does everything come together to kind of fill up your life?

SPEAKER_02 35:49

It's it's interesting if I look at it that way. I think they naturally just braid together. Um, you know, for for Wale, one of the things that we're looking at, it's it's an opportunity to gather something of um of an informal, what we call a reputational index, but almost like an informal credit rating as a person uses our system, because there are groups that are left out of traditional financing. And that can be indigenous populations that don't have the same access to um to credit, to capital, um, even to, you know, to the same degree home ownership. And so we need to enable other methods of of credit and finance and and access to money. Um, or, you know, think new Canadians and the immigration population. So, what are ways that we can assist people? Because if they don't have that traditional credit history, what ends up happening is they're paying more for everything, you know, higher rates on credit cards, higher rates on loans and mortgages. So um, so yeah, naturally just kind of all these different elements blend together in in one shape or form.

Keith 36:57

That that makes sense. And and so if you think about kind of the journey that you've been on, um, and you look back to maybe like post-EMBA, Letitia, um, as you're about to really it sounds like make some of these these pretty significant pivots in your life.

Dooms Spending AI And The Trades

Keith 37:12

Like, is there advice that you'd give yourself from the things that you know now? Um, you know, looking back to that version of yourself?

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Uh looking back, I would say thumbs up, Letitia. Good job on saying yes to everything. I know it was exhausting at the time, but it worked out uh because it's it was from all of those experiences that I got to a point where I can actually activate some of those experiences. Um I'm I'm just gonna do, you know, I'm gonna sound like the old ninny here, but be prudent with your dollars. You know, saving up front, saving early, being cautious with your money up front just gives you options later. And that's what I tell my boys who are now no what we call baby adults. Yeah, um, is the more cautious you are now, it doesn't mean don't live your life. It just means do it in an intentional way so that you get the experiences that you want, but you preserve your options for later.

Keith 38:10

Yeah. Well, what what's the saying? I think that there's two things that people can't comprehend, and it's time and compound interest.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Yeah, fair enough.

Keith 38:18

Um but yeah, I think that that that's really prudent advice, especially with some of the the chaos in the world right now. Um so if you, you know, and I I know no one has a crystal ball, um, but if you think about some of the impacts around AI and some of the technology side of things, like I see the the need for the conversation you're having, um having probably more important than ever, because I I would say that there's some incredible things that have come together, but there's also a lot of uncertainty in the world right now.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

100%. And it's that that uncertainty and that financial anxiety that leads people. Have you heard of this thing called dooms doom spending?

Keith 38:55

No, I I actually have not. It's so interesting.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Well-branded. It's so interesting. And um, the the literature is out there, but it's essentially the this concept that you know, young people today feel so disenfranchised, and there's this um like a hopeless feeling like they'll never get into home ownership, that that's just that ship is sailed, it's not something that's accessible to them. So they say, well, I might as well just spend all my money and just live live large today because I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. It's almost this way of combating the uncertainty. Um, so that's that's where one of the things that we're trying to uh give some hope and say don't give up on those dreams. There are ways of getting there, and even if it's you know through waylay and employers, you know, pitching in, that's great. But um, yeah, it's it's a big uh wildly changing world. What's really cool is, and again, we're kind of doing that whole return to what what used to be, is this refocus on the trades.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

So I'm the mother of you know, two late teenage boys, and um I would love to see them, you know, going and getting a practical trade because that's not something that's easily replaceable by AI. Um, you can say what you want about factories, but you know, when we're talking about somebody's gonna be out in the cold build building something, somebody's gonna be wiring, somebody's gonna be putting up these houses. And um, and that practical knowledge is just so invaluable.

Keith 40:24

Well, I think it was Jeffrey Hinton um that said like his advice to his kids is become a plumber.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Completely. Yeah.

Keith 40:31

Um, I I think that robotics and everything like will come a long way, but I uh they're probably furthest away in the crosshairs for many of those of those job changes. And you know, even if I think about the comfort of letting a robot into my house to to you know change a kitchen sink. Exactly. Like I think that we're we're still a ways away from that.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

We we are, we are, and um, and you know, it's always nice to have practical still skills to fall back on just in in your own lives. Like there's something satisfying about that.

Keith 41:03

Yeah. Even though I I learned to change the oil in my car when I was a kid, and we have an electric car now, so it doesn't have any oil. But um if we ever need to, I'm sure I could figure it out again.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Exactly. No, it's it's stuff like that that's just like just makes you feel

Practical Pride And Final Advice

SPEAKER_02 41:19

good.

Keith 41:19

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I remember like, you know, even when when we bought our first house, you know, building the fence was like, and I know it sounds like a funny thing, but I'd I've always worked office jobs.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Exactly. To get out there swinging a hammer.

Keith 41:31

Yeah, and and and it's it's tactile. At the end of it, you can actually see what you've built, and there's this pride of of building something.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

There is, and you know, and that you know, careers in construction, I can still drive by, you know, generation plants that I was on, like things that I helped build. And I'm gonna, yeah, I I built that. I built that gas plant, you know, I was on that pipeline, um, that solar field right there, you know, I was I was a part of. And so there's something really cool in that.

Keith 41:57

Yeah, and those are those are key pieces of our infrastructure, right? It's not just uh the fence that makes sure my dog doesn't get out. It's you're you know, this community has power because of the work that I did over here.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

That's a that's a generous way to look at it.

Keith 42:10

Yeah. Um Letitia, I I feel like um this has been an incredible conversation. Um is there any kind of final words that you wanted to leave with our with our listeners um around, you know, either the the the journey that you've been on, if any any wisdom you have for people that are maybe at that precipice of wanting to take that leap and that bet on themselves? Absolutely. Like what what words of wisdom for would you have?

SPEAKER_02 42:35

Uh there is not uh a day of education, a certificate, a course, a program that I've ever regretted. And it's all contributed to just being able to participate in more conversations. So uh say yes to all of those opportunities. Um if there's something that you're interested in, put up your hand to volunteer. You know, maybe you're sitting on a committee and you're just giving some of your time. And even when you're not contributing, you're getting, but people appreciate your perspective that you're gonna bring.

Keith 43:06

I I love it. And if someone wanted to to reach out to you either to pick your brand they want to learn more about Wele or any of the work that you're doing, um, what's the best way to for them to get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Best way is LinkedIn.

Keith 43:16

LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_02 43:17

Yeah, I'm pretty pretty active on there. And uh sort of all my streams come together uh on LinkedIn, so yeah, I'd be happy to connect.

Keith 43:24

Amazing. Well, well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show today. This has been an absolute blast of conversation. I feel like it could probably go on for another two hours, um, but I'll I'll save your calendar a tiny bit and thank you so much for making the trip today.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

This has been awesome. So thank you.

Keith 43:39

Awesome. If you've made it this far, like and subscribe on YouTube or follow and leave a review on your favorite podcasting platform so you don't miss any future episodes.