Leveling Up With AI And Efficiency

SPEAKER_00 0:00

How do we level up our teams and ourselves to take advantage of some of this? Where, you know, not just for writing a poem, right? Um, but for if you know for actually, you know, uh creating positive impact on our workday and creating some efficiency.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Welcome to another episode of Sell Me This Podcast. Today we have an exciting conversation with Nish Sampath from the Switch Advisory Group, where we dive into everything of fractional, from why it's important, how it got started, and what makes a good fractional consultant. This conversation's for you. Welcome to another episode of Sell Me This Podcast. Today we are incredibly excited to have with us Nish Sampath, the CEO of Switch Advisory. We're going to dive right into things. Nish, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Thanks for thanks for having me, Keith. It's a pleasure to be here. Um, so yeah, I'm the CEO of Switch Advisory. It's a fractional chief operating officer agency. Started it about three years ago. Um, I decided I had enough of the corporate world and wanted to make a little bit of a switch, no pun intended, Keith. And and here I am today, kind of three years later, gone down this journey and frankly still figuring it out as we go.

Origin Story And Leaving Corporate

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Well, I feel like whenever you and I get together for coffee, I always enjoy our chats because I'd say you're probably about a year in front of us in terms of your your your career um or kind of business maturity. And I think we we go through a lot of the same challenges. It seems like we're we're kind of figuring things out together at some point. Absolutely. And um, yeah, so super, super excited to have you on the show. Before we dive into the very serious content, um as you know, we have a tradition on the show where the guests get to pick their artwork. And so um I know you did a lot of prep for this. And uh and so I'd love to hear your story around the piece here that you'd selected.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Yeah, so this is Starry Night by Van Gogh. And um we had a family trip maybe three years ago now out to Saint Remy in France, where uh Van Gogh was actually um the mental asylum where he stayed in was is in Saint Remy. And about I would say about 45 minutes outside of Saint Remy, and I'll butcher the name again, but it's uh a town called uh Les Beaux de Provence. And it is a really tiny little cool town, but they have these giant limestone quarries. And within the quarry, there's this art exhibit. It's called Les Carrier de Lumière. Again, butchered the name, but it is a uh they they project all this impressionist painting on all of the surfaces of this giant quarry. So the floors, the ceilings, the walls, and they and they make it move and make it interactive and it flows to classical music. And it's just an absolutely incredible experience. So if you're ever in France, you gotta go see it. And apparently there's other similar exhibits across Europe as well. So gotta check those out as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Very cool. I think that I'm gonna have to add it to the bucket list of things to see.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Um each time I talk to you, it sounds like you've gone somewhere exciting. Are you a big traveler?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

You know, I was before kids. I think you know, my guy is he's turning nine this year, so we'll probably be back on the the travel kick again. He's at that age.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Right, where they could they they're old enough to kind of remember now and exactly and uh anywhere on the kind of first list that you want to go? Portugal. Yeah, yeah. I've heard that from a lot of people. I feel like Portugal's the hotspot right now.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Yeah, it's supposed to be incredible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

And so um, Switch advisory. So so I I want to dive before we talk about switch too much, um, into your experience that kind of led you here. And so if you were to kind of summarize your career and the and the things and steps that you took to get to a spot where you're launching switch, uh, what does that journey look like for you?

Defining Fractional Versus Consulting

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Yeah, great question. Um my help, my my experience is primarily in healthcare and product. So, you know, I spent a lot of time um in the healthcare space trying to save the world, but from, you know, not the doctor side, but from the technology side. And um I learned to operate in giant systems with a lot of constraints. And um at some point though, we kind of came to the conclusion that your ability to make an impact in some of these giant corporations is limited. And, you know, as I came into my midlife crisis, I decided, hey, I need to go have some more fun. I need to make a bigger impact um with my career. Where do I go? And I decided to join a startup in town. And and that was pretty, it was pretty incredible experience, right? You move from this giant organization where, you know, you're constrained from a speed perspective. There's zero risk tolerance in organizations like that. And you move to an environment where you have massive financial constraints. There's no bureaucracy, but everything's a massive risk at the same time. And you have competitors knocking at your door every day. You got to figure out how do you move faster and quicker and more aggressively, and how do you make more intelligent decisions every day, um, and just throw a little bit of caution to the wind, but it in a smart way and go fast, right? And so I really loved that journey. And I joined that organization as a COO. Um, there were three founders and just helping to align the troops and get everybody fighting in the same direction. I found my calling, I think, and decided that would be really cool to do that across different organizations at the same time. And it was kind of when fractional started to actually be a thing all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Well, because I I feel like in a and pioneer is is probably a maybe a generous word, but I think you were on the front end of that fractional movement where you're you're starting to see people that are wanting to show up for work differently. You're starting to see organizations that maybe don't have the bandwidth to consume those kind of caliber of people in the same way. How did you kind of make that shift to say, like, if I can work for three or four organizations at the same time, do this really meaningful work, um, you know, I can make something of it. Was it a hard thing to wrap your head around, or did it just kind of happen organically?

Prioritization And Scope Discipline

SPEAKER_00 6:22

You know, for me, it was fairly organic. After, you know, working at the um startup, I found that there is an ability to make a pretty significant impact within an organization, even if you're time constrained, right? Even if you're splitting your time across different organizations. If you have a method and you actually know what you're doing and you're able to focus on, you know, the most important or the most important or the most important activities, you know, you can you can make a pretty significant dent in a reasonable period of time, where traditionally we go into companies and frankly, we fill our days with some bogus work just because that's what happens, right? And so um it did happen fairly organically. Um and I followed a little bit of you know the leadership from other fractionals in the space. Obviously, CFO has been a fractional thing for some time. Um, they probably changed, you know, the term from more of a consultative CFO to a fractional CFO. And there were some leaders in Calgary who were doing it around the marketing, you know, marketing fractional executives. Um but I thought I was very clever. I thought I was, you know, first to come out with this concept and until I started looking around and I figured, oh, there's a lot of people actually doing this. And um, it is a model that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

So I'm I'm gonna hit you with it. Hopefully, this isn't a hardball, but um, there's so much talk around fractional, around contractors, consulting. Um, you know, is it something that's the same thing that has different vernacular around it, or is there in your mind a different kind of set of responsibilities or expectation as you're you know talking about those kind of three different verbiages?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yeah. Um, you know, traditionally I see, you know, consultant as more of an advisor. You're you're you're most often on the outside providing direction and saying, here's the things you should do, more often than not. Um fractional is kind of taking the leap where you're not just providing the advice, but you're adding bandwidth within the organization. So you become an active member of that company. You're a part of their leadership team, you are, you know, you're hiring, you're negotiating, you're restructuring the organization from the inside out. Um and so it does come with a little bit of a different responsibility. You're more, I would like to think we take more ownership than traditionally the consulting model has been. But having said that, I think a lot of the consultants are moving in that direction, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Aaron Powell Right. And I I I think especially maybe technology is somewhat what's driving this, but it's the the less of the you know person sitting on the sidelines kind of pointing at all the things you need to fix and saying, good luck, here's your playbook.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

And and more of how do uh how do you roll up your sleeves, how do you get in there, um, and and actively drive the change versus just being a cheerleader off to the side.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Aaron Powell That's exactly it. I mean, you know, the traditional consulting model was we're gonna give you a lot of advice and you're gonna take it from us because frankly, you can blame it on us. We're kind of the insurance policy, right? Um but for organizations you know within the size that we try to work with, which are companies between two and fifty million, most often than not, they don't have the luxury of you know paying for high-priced advice. They need somebody to go and do the work with them. They don't have enough people, they don't have enough resources, they don't have enough time, frankly. They're often founder CEO-led organizations where that individual is already kind of bleeding themselves dry, and they need an extra set of hands to get in there and do the work.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

That makes complete sense to me. And so and so as you're talking about that being done on an operations standpoint, I can see that being a challenging delineation sometimes because operations can often, as you probably know, become a catch-all.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

For the for the problems they're not quite sure how to solve. It's it's operations. And even, you know, we see like IT and digital problems pop into operations, finance often jumps in there. How are you shaping those those engagements so it doesn't just become this enormous body of work and rather can be really focused on the things that you're talking about?

Founder Dependency And Revenue Plateaus

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah. That's still an ongoing learning adventure, if we're if we're honest, right? I think there's, you know, we come into the organization and we look across the value chain and say, okay, what are those significant opportunities for improvement across people, strategy, execution, and cash? And then we say, within those opportunities, what's actually going to move the needle? Right. If we're in a given company for, you know, either two to three days per week, that's not a lot of time. So we're fairly constrained. We need to focus again on the most important or the most important or the most important activities. And for the large part, those activities have to impact revenue, cogs, or operating cost. And if unless there's like some visible and clear alignment with an impact to one of those three indicators, we probably shouldn't do it, right? We don't we simply don't have enough time. I think the other part is you know, uh for us is recognizing that we shouldn't do everything. And there's probably other people better served in our ecosystem to take on those responsibilities. So if it's you know a deep financial challenge where we you know we need to get our forward projections up to speed for capital raise, should we do it? No. Right? Should we be creating our marketing strategy and and execution executing that, you know, that the new ad campaign? No, we should not be doing that. You know, should we be um uh looking at uh your HR I mean we can look at your people challenges, but when it comes to you know building out the discrete HR processes within the organization and managing some of that, should we do it? No. We have to rely on our ecosystem of partners to make sure we're bringing in the right human with the right skill set and better serving our clients.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

So would it would it be too simplistic to say that that a lot of the heavy lift is actually helping with that prioritization and kind of making sure that people are focused on the right things?

SPEAKER_00 12:26

I I think that's the best way to say it. I wish I said it that way.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Well, but I also I also love what you said too. And I I think that there's some really you know funny beliefs around constraints. And and I'm curious on your perspective, but from my view, I think I think constraints are a really powerful thing because you know I've always lived by the uh kind of an adage that work fills all available time. Yes. And and I think that there's a tendency, especially when you think about like traditional employment models, to say, okay, um, I show up for my 40, 60, 80 hours a week and I need to make sure I'm doing stuff and I'm busy and I just want to make sure that I'm visibly busy versus visibly um productive.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yeah.

Matching CEOs With The Right Fractional

SPEAKER_01 13:06

And and so I think that that that challenge of compressing things into a shorter time period gets you out of the weird all hands meeting, gets you out of the um things that aren't actually driving those levers forward. Like do you is that could do the constraints become really powerful in terms of your ability to actually affect change?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

I think constraints in general are very powerful. Right. I think creativity thrives with constraints. Right. If you just have no constraining forces on either side, you just make stuff up randomly as you go. Um and you see that both in the creative sense and from an execution sense. And so absolutely it is um it's very imperative that we kind of hold ourselves um accountable to those constraints. And and frankly, you know, from a client's perspective, they really don't care about how much time you put into it. They're focused on outcomes. Time is our constraint. Outcomes the only thing they actually are interested in.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

And and so is that a universal? Because like I I think that in even some leaders that I've talked to, um, and because we struggle with this, you know, some of the same narrative when we're talking to customers, where there's a comfort in someone that's full-time and more of a traditional um employment um relationship, where it's like I I know they're going to be there when I ask them for something. Yeah. And and so do you think that that just becomes more of a catch-all for the leaders that aren't quite sure what to do as well? Or like how do you how do you navigate organizations that that make that transition from having someone available to having someone that's delivering?

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah, I mean that that that's a that's something we still face, right? I think a lot of it is is um organizations that have had some experience with fractional already, obviously they're more amenable to it. And so if they've had a fractional CFO, they're more willing to bring in a fractional COO, for example. If, on the other hand, they've never had any experience with it, they are likely to question how much impact you can have within that period of time. So, you know, our challenge is to create referenceable, you know, you know, impact statements from other clients that we can say, hey, listen, here's what we've done. Actually, go talk to our client, and our clients will tell you that was the best decision we've ever made. We really didn't need them full time. We just needed someone with the right level of experience to come in to help guide that conversation during during that short period of time.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

That that makes sense. And so is there a DNA of a type of organization or stage of organization that's best suited to fractional? Like if you were to say for Switch, you know, I wave my magic wand and the ideal customer kind of pops in front of us, yeah. Um, you know, without being too limiting, like what is what is the DNA that makes someone a good um consumer of fractional services?

Tech Sprawl, AI Hype, And Real Ops

SPEAKER_00 15:54

That's a great question. I think um a couple things, at least from Switch's perspective, and it I think it differs based on the fractional models out there. Um one is you know, there's there's a revenue uh level for us because it determines, you know, if you're between generally between two and 50 million, but that's generally where you have product market fit, right? If you if you're pre-product market fit, we're not the right solution for you. You're there's other resources that are probably better suited for your organization at that point in time. If you're a hyperscaler and you're growing too quickly, you probably need full-time support. And likewise, if you're over 50 to 75 million, you often need full-time support, right? You're growing very quickly, your head count is too large from a COO perspective, you probably need full-time. But within that space, that two to 50, um, we find it's we can make a pretty significant impact. So organizations within that, within that you know, revenue size, they're generally founder CEO led still. Occasionally we're but we're brought in through the board, but most often than not, uh founder CEO. And they are, you know, they've hit an inflection point. They're the organizations that have they've grown and they've outgrown the founder CEO's ability to operate the company, and they recognize that. And it generally kind of shows up in a revenue plateau. And oftentimes, you know, some founder frustration where they're even thinking about exiting and they're saying, listen, we've built a good company. This is as far as we can potentially take it on our own. Either we get support to get, you know, remove that founder dependency so we can actually sell the company, which is a huge part of what we do, or we we again remove founder dependency to help us continue to scale up.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Right. So I uh from what I'm hearing, like a lot of the work where you have some of those CEO or founders that are that are right in the thick of things, yeah. You know, regardless of whether or not they want to scale or exit, they they need to get their house in order.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah. I mean, you know, they founded a company and then they found themselves in a job. Right. I think that's the biggest challenge. They find themselves back in a job and they're like, oh, this is not what I signed up for. I I thought I I thought I was an entrepreneur, founded a company, was hoping to kind of you know get that freedom that entrepreneurial, you know, uh experience should eventually help me pursue, but they're back and just employed by their own company. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Well, and and you know, like it's a very different job. Like that that phase from zero to two, the phase from two to fifty, the phase from fifty plus, like they're they're functionally different jobs, and there's not a lot of people that actually fit the DNA with that they are great at each of them or even love doing each of those things too.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Yeah. I mean, you know, there's a lot of folks that um love to get in the weeds and actually do the work, and that makes sense for fractional. Uh, there's some that are more, you know, board level advisors who like to provide strategy, and there's a completely different, you know, space for that type of uh consultant to come in.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

So so I guess that brings up a good question is how do you how do you pick the right fit for your organization? Like, and I know that's part of the work that you do, and you know, especially as you've kind of grown in scale and playing the matchmaker side of things. Yeah. But but how if I'm a business leader trying to pick the right fractional leader to sit shotgun with me as we're making some of these really fundamental um evolutions to our business, how how do I know um that I'm picking the right one? And how do I what should I be looking for to make sure that I find that right person to ride shotgun with me?

Community Building: The Fawkers

SPEAKER_00 19:28

That's a great question. I think first is, you know, uh, and you probably see this as well, it's it's you got to have that values and cultural alignment, right? You gotta be able to see that person as your right hand, you know, and and be able to take their advice. You have to be able to be willing to actually spend some time with that individual because you're going to spend a lot of time with that person. So if you can't get along, if you don't have that alignment from a values perspective, it's never gonna work, right? Um we want to make sure when we're doing that matchmaking that the the CEO and the COO um really jive well together. The CEO can see the COO as their both the little devil and the little angel on their shoulder, you know, depending on what what what needs to be done. And they also, you know, as we're not as concerned about, let's call it industry-related experience, but we were certainly concerned about do you have the same, the right problem solution experience? Like have you solved the types of problems that this company is going through, whether it's human problems, whether it's you know supply chain problems or technology implementation problems, or frankly, just account management, project management problems, right? You have to have solved the right type of problems that the the specific organization is actually going through to make sure you're the right fit for that company.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Do you think that the most people are aware of what the problem they're trying to solve is, or is that part of kind of your your initial conversations with them is really defining what the roadblock or barrier is?

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Oh yeah. I mean, you're you're absolutely right. I think they're nine times out of ten, they're they're just feeling the symptoms of it, right? So they don't actually know causality from, you know, um what's actually causing the pain. And so we go in again, do that value chain analysis to make sure we actually are diving into it and figuring out what really needs to be fixed. Um and you know, oftentimes, at least with the founders that we are gonna work with, they they know that they're the problem, most often than not, which is a very good place to start.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Um I guess if you're brought in by the board when they don't know they're the problem, that's a more challenging discussion.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Very much so. Yeah, very much so. But you know, oftentimes we will um when we're lucky enough to work with the right clients, right? They're they know that they're they're core to the problem and that they need to get out of their own way, frankly.

Why Pros Choose The Fractional Path

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yeah. That makes sense. And so you you alluded earlier to you know, this evolution of fractional, right? So you know you have this. CFO, CMO progression, CMOs coming in. Yeah. You know, we're starting to see tech come in as well. Right. And I think that it's it's funny how the chronology has happened, but we're starting to see more and more on the tech advisory with that that fractional CTO, CIO, CDO, whatever label we want to put on it. What do you think is causing that that cascade? Is it just familiarity? Is the type of work that maybe the executives are connected to? Um, and I realize there's probably no right answer here, but I'm just I'm curious on kind of why it staggered so differently.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Yeah. I mean, I think it's familiarity. I think it's the snowball effect, right? It started with a couple of executives on the on the finance and marketing side, as you suggested, right? Um most often the founder CEO is like, yeah, I don't know finance or I don't know, marketing. Definitely let's bring in some external expertise for that. And, you know, as things progress, you also see more and more people jumping into the fractional space. And so just the visibility of fractional executives that are capable of providing a CTO or CIO or C CEL related skills, it's starting to grow. And so um, it's just creating that broader awareness, which is it's very powerful because I think a lot of organizations, as they, you know, as we stated, they don't need the full-time level resource. They just need the right guidance with some additional support in other areas. They could probably hire juniors instead of the senior executive and just bring in the senior executive part-time.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Right. And I guess like if you're if you're bringing in the right people, then you can lever up and down the effort as as required. So you might not need um, you know, someone to drive down the highway at 120 miles an hour the entire time. You might you might need some side roads, and I feel like this is a weird analogy I've chosen, but um I can see the ability to be able to kind of pick it up, speed it up, slow it down as being a huge advantage for different stages and milestones of a company too.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Absolutely. You know, and frankly, that's kind of our model, right? We're not meant to be a permanent long-term solution in the organization. We're generally in a company for six to eighteen months. And and, you know, our analogy is we're we're here to build the operating machine, right? Uh, once we've built that operating system, someone else can drive the car, right? Back to your analysis. Thank you. Thank you for saving my analogy. Right. You don't need to be the engineer to construct it. You you just have to drive the car after the fact. And it's, you know, we want to make sure we do train those individuals coming in to so that, you know, there's resilience in the organization after we leave. Um, but it doesn't take it takes a different skill set to to kind of build that operating infrastructure in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

And so I was having lunch with someone today and we were having this exact conversation because we even us, we we've been stuck in the trap before where you you become a safety blanket almost. And it's not getting started that's the hard part. It's actually detangling that's the hard part. Yeah. And and so what advice would you have for people that are setting things up? Um, and maybe they're in the middle of that engagement, but making sure that you do have those mile markers so that it's not an infinity project, that there actually is a legitimate offboarding plan.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Yeah.

How To Start A Fractional Practice

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Um, I mean, you know, first of all, you have to go in with the very intention to make sure you are gonna offboard, right? Which makes, you know, the requirement there to say, I have to level up the next layer of leadership. Yeah, right. A lot of my time towards the end of the engagement needs to be mentally focused on who's next, who's coming up, how am I coaching and training them, how am I making them more resilient from from both an individual and an organizational perspective so that they're capable of taking this on. Because frankly, if everything falls apart after we leave, well, that's egg on our face, right? So, you know, and we have to be very intentional about that and make sure we're building that process in the systems, um, and either hiring into that seat or leveling up individuals within the organization to take over that role after we leave.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

I like it. And so so that becomes a success criteria as well of just saying it's as much about those initial wins as the the exit win that the world continues without us.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, and that's what we've tried to um you know accomplish with our clients. And we'll still always maintain relationships. I still have, you know, calls and and coaching conversations with you know our previous clients on a monthly basis. Um so just to keep them accountable and make sure they're you know they're they're they have they know they have someone to lean on when they when they need to. Um, but we shouldn't be doing the the same work um over that extended period of time.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

So I'm gonna switch gears a tiny bit. And so you have um you know probably a little bit of a superpower right now in the fact that you you do have some tech background as well, correct? I do, yeah. And and so, you know, obviously tech is everywhere right now. Um how are you seeing that infiltrate the work that you're doing from an operation standpoint?

SPEAKER_00 26:50

It's a that's a that's a tough one. That's a big question. I think there's almost, you know, when we're thinking about the companies at that two to fifty million dollar range, there's probably you know two challenges they're facing. So challenge one is they're trying to figure out what to do with the tech they've already bought.

unknown 27:09

Right.

The Switch Methodology And Outcomes

SPEAKER_00 27:09

And that's a big one because they've spent a lot of money and they keep spending a lot of money, but they're not doing anything with it. So how is it actually incorporated within their processes and systems? Um is any of the information integrated across different applications? Are we using any of it appropriately? You know, you sign up for all these subscriptions and you know, Netflix crave, you know, Apple TV as an analogy. And then you go down, you're like, oh, geez, that was that's a lot of money every month that we're burning on this stuff. What are we doing with it? And so a lot of it is consolidation. It's kind of creating alignment between processes and technology to make sure it is fit for purpose and actually make sense. And a lot, you know, exactly what we would bring somebody like you in for is like, bigger company, help us make sense out of this tech strategy. Like there's a lot going on. Where do we go down this in the future? Right. Um so that's probably let's say 50%. The other 50% is AI, right? It's like, okay, we have to keep up with the Joneses. We need to figure out how to create more efficiency with less. And unfortunately today that means with less human, you know, manpower. And so uh how do we level up our teams and ourselves to take advantage of some of this? We're, you know, not just for writing a poem, right? Um, but for if you know for actually, you know, uh creating positive impact on our workday and creating some efficiency. And so it is understanding what's available because there's a there's an AI tool for everything today. So even helping to navigate that landscape and figuring out what is the most important tool to get to use, how do we introduce some early stage tests to see if they're viable within the organization and just start exploring AI a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

And I'm really glad you said that. And you know, the the dangerous part sometimes, at least in my opinion, and some of the work that we see is on that AI front where you're starting to lead with the tool.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Um, but it's on the tip of everyone's tongue. And everyone, you know, whether it's it's their desire, whether it's their boards, whether it's different members of the leadership team, it's it's something that has to be part of their conversation. And I just I feel like there's such a connection between operations and technology, simply because like the the technology, you can't just buy AI tool number three, plug it in and say, okay, now the world's a better place. Yeah that you need to you really need to have your house in order in order for that technology to work properly. Like we've always said that it's a great amplifier, right? And so if you have your if you have really good process, if you have a really strong operational backbone, it can amplify the things that are working really well. Yeah. In inversely, if you have uh you know shitty processes, if you if you have things that are broken, if you have things that have a whole bunch of human intervention, AI and technology are actually going to make that way worse if you don't sort those things out first.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, it it's a little bit of a red flag when I hear, you know, founders saying, hey, we need you to help come in and turn this into an AI first company. Yeah. And you're thinking, well, you should be people first. And then we build some strong processes around those people, and then we make them more effective and efficient using AI. I think that's the right path. Um, but just thinking that, you know, AI is going to solve all our problems, at least today, certainly not. And so um, it's figuring out, as you mentioned, do we have the right people? Do we have, are those people completely aligned? Do we have a clarity in our strategy? Do we have actual processes that are, you know, mapped, managed, monitored? Do we have the underlying technology, whether it's AI or something else, to support that technology? And is our cash aligned with the with the organizational strategy? Right. And so um we don't lead with tech ever. We we learn lead with kind of the the overarching principles of how are your processes being executed today? Where are those opportunities to inject to technology? And does it make sense from a human perspective? How do you go through that change management and that training that's required?

How To Reach Switch Advisory

SPEAKER_01 31:16

Um your music to my ears right here. And I I just I feel like sometimes it's easy to trace that shiny object and um it just kind of can lead you down some pretty significant rabbit holes. You've been a big advocate, I'd say, on the fractional ecosystem side of things. And so um I won't share the clever name that you've come up with, but um and you can, I mean, I don't want to you're allowed to say it, you can swear on here if you want. Um, but you've done a really incredible job of bringing together a community of fractional people. Thank you. Um, you know, in the Calgary ecosystem. And so first of all, like what's inspired you to do that? And and second, like I'd love to give you a little bit of airtime to share what you've built in the community that you're you're fostering here.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. Um well, it's called the Fawkers, which is the fractional officers of Calgary. Um, and you know, it kind of was rooted in the idea that, you know, fractional is lonely, right? Like you're you're you're trying to figure it out. It it is very nascent, nobody really knows how to execute the model, but people are interested in it and they're trying to get into the space. And so how do you offer an opportunity to that growing community of people who want to learn about it to come and learn about it from their peers, right? So that was that was initially how it started is I got into fractional and said, who else is doing this that I can learn from? And so we just brought some folks together. Um, and now it's evolved a little bit. It is really trying to create that strong community, give ever give that peer group an opportunity to, you know, share their knowledge, share opportunities across the network and share their network, frankly. And then, you know, we like to make sure we give back to charity as well. So all the proceeds from the tickets, as you know, they go to charity. And that's very important to us as well because um we should be doing something bigger in ourselves. It shouldn't just be about making money, although that's great. But um, you know, how do we help society at large and um and support our peer group? And I think the, you know, the fractional community is is definitely um getting larger, right? And um it's it's important because there's a lot of people that are thinking about it. And, you know, how do we help them down that path, even if it's maybe not the right path for them, at least help educate them to say, here's what the challenges are, here's where the opportunities lie. Um, if it makes sense for you, you know, come join the fun.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Well, well, each time I I go to one of your events, I feel like the room's a little bit fuller.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Um why are there so many people you are that are interested in that fractional lifestyle right now? Big questions.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

No, I mean, I like you know, I'll tell you why I was. I mean, I just wanted the varied experience, right? Like we get the opportunity to work across industries, across these different geographies, across different, you know, creative founders that are doing really cool, interesting things. Um, and frankly, I'm not that creative uh myself. So, you know, I like to work with really smart, interesting founders. And so it's given me and others the opportunity to be a part of that journey, that uh entrepreneurial journey with these other organizations. Um and it's not as constraining as being in that little corporate box, I think. And and that's that's appealing for a lot of people. You know, you can do it remotely for the most part, and um you can have a lot of fun and and make a significant impact doing it. Now, again, back to the point where I was where I left my corporate job is because of all the constraints and let's call it the risk adversity of the corporate environment, you simply can't make that much impact um in a way that you can as a fractional executive in in the SMB space.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Well, and there's there's so many people that I've talked to that have you know ascended to these roles in large organizations, and you know, they arrive at this point and they realize that A, it's not all it's cracked up to be, and and B, you know, a lot of the calories that are being burned are being burned on um, I don't want to say maneuvering, that's that sounds incorrect, but you know, on just navigating the organization rather than political maneuvering doing the what it's like. Well, yeah, well, it's you gotta work the system. But um but there's so many people that I talk to, and I think you hit the nail on the head that just they love the work. Yeah. They they don't they just want to do the amazing work and they don't want to worry about all the other stuff over here. Yeah. And you know, the ability to kind of go in, go out, show up in really meaningful ways sounds incredible.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

I and I I think I think that's exactly it, right? People once they get into it, they really enjoy it. The challenge is, of course, is you know, it's how to manage your time, how to actually, you know, split your energy between multiple clients. It is not as easy as it may seem. You know, the client has, you know, you're putting in, you know, part-time inputs, but they have full-time outcome expectations, right? They still think you're gonna, you know, deliver what a full-time um resource would. So it's just being able to manage some of those expectations across clients and do the work and and enjoy yourself with the community while you're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

So if you were to give advice to someone that was on the front end of that journey, they're they're launching their fractional practice. Um maybe they have their first customer, maybe they they don't. But how would you give them a you know a blueprint in terms of the steps to take to get started, to kind of maintain some of that balance, to maintain some sanity? Because it is a departure from the safety blanket of kind of big corporate before.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Yeah. Um I mean, I I think I think to be successful, you have to create your methodology for how you execute. Like how do you go into a client, understand the client landscape, execute and make a really significant impact in a really short period of time, right? You need your blueprint for that. And it probably starts out with similar to myself, just doing at one client, right? You know, part-time within a startup, for example, understanding how you're gonna execute and then scaling that model across multiple clients. So, first and foremost, don't take too many clients at once. I did that, made that mistake, it was very painful. Uh and now I coach my COOs to not make a similar mistake. You know, context switching is very difficult. And when you start to try to context switch across too many different clients, it can become very hairy and and frankly more stressful than just having a job. So you have to get used to that. And the other part is you have to get used to some level of pipeline ambiguity, right? With a job, you just don't have a job. And it's less safe than it used to be, as we all know, right? So it's not um it's not any safe fraction, frankly, but it it it appears that way on the surface, right? A fractional has to sell. You have to create sales pipeline for yourself and make sure that as you roll off one client, you can start to roll into another client. That's challenging. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Well well, and I I think uh you bring up a really interesting point around the certainty of you know, you there's you've seen the layoffs, like they're they're not just Calgary, it's across the the globe that you know traditional working is being disrupted. Yeah. And you know, I've even coached some of our consultants that the only difference is you know when the when the contract ends. And you you have an exact line of sight into when that is, and maybe it'll extend or maybe it won't, but at least you just have a date. Yeah. And you know, sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't. And and I think that there's this illusion of security sometimes in full-time gigs.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

The illusion of security is the best way to put it, right? I think um, you know, and and before when I had the illusion of security when I was in the corporate world, you know, I didn't go and do any networking, I didn't go meet people and create that that broad relationship base. And I would say, you know, that's more valuable than, you know, even your experience today. So go out there, make some friends, understand what the business landscape looks like, um, continue to strengthen your ecosystem of partners and your ecosystem of of relationships so that when opportunities do arise, they're thinking about you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Yeah, there's there's so many people that that don't spend those that time up front. Yeah. And even you're whether or not you're thinking of making the move or you're not, um, you know, they kind of reach this point where all of a sudden they're pushed off a cliff and they frantically try to, you know, rekindle all these relationships from the past 20 years, and they have to do it really frantically, where I think if you're a little more, you know, curious, a little more engaged, it definitely pays long-term dividends regardless.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

100%. I mean, you know, I think that's advice I should have given myself as well. So, you know, hence the advice I give other people today. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

I I love it. So in in terms of switch, and I I I feel like our time has flown by here today already. Um, but in in terms of switch, um, you know, I I don't want to put you on the spot, but in like what makes you special in terms of the work that you're doing um and and why are people choosing to work with you? Because I know you're you're growing um in an incredible pace right now, which is awesome. And what what what's the special sauce that brings people um towards your front door?

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Well, I think from a client perspective, you know, um our COs are unicorns, right? I like to think of them as unicorns. They have they have the corporate experience, so they had the seat, right? The executive level seat. They've also had the actual blood, sweat, and tears of working in a startup or a small medium business where, you know, you have massive financial constraints. You can't just throw money at a problem, you have to roll up your sleeves and do the work. And then they're also executive coaches, so they have a lot of coaching background. And so those three pillars of experience are pretty significant and very, very difficult to find. And on top of that, I think, you know, our methodology is strong, right? So we're not winging it when we go into a client, which is what you unfortunately see a lot of fractionals today doing is they're going in and trying to wing it. And it's hard to make an impact if you have no game plan going into there.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Yeah, what is it? If you if you plan to fail to plan, you plan to fail. There you go. Yeah. No, um, I I I love it. And I I think the framework is really important. So do you like, are you able to share kind of what your framework is or is that the secret sauce?

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Uh no, I mean, it's not a secret sauce. I mean, we we we build operational clarity within the organization. So looking across the value chain, understanding those opportunities for improvement, it's really kind of a our stage one. We then roll out an operating system. So best in class methodologies, incorporating tools from EOS, scaling up Rockefeller habits in general. We help to implement that. Um and just make sure there's rhythm, there's accountability, and there's structure within the organization. And then we we create a more sustainable organization. So it's all about building resilience within the team, coaching those leaders up and um making sure that we're leaving that organization is stronger than we did before.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

I feel like you've said that one before.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Um it's been an absolute pleasure to have you today. This this has been an um you know amazing conversation. I feel like I have a thousand or one more questions for you, but uh I I want to kind of stick to the time we have allotted. But if you were to um if someone wanted to find you, if someone to track you down, hopefully in a good way.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Um, hopefully you haven't made any mortal enemies on the podcast today. Um, what's the best way to get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Best way is just hit up our website, switchadvisory.com, or hit me up directly, info at switchadvisory.com.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show today. This has been a blast and look forward to keeping chatting. Thanks so much, Keith. Appreciate it. If you've made it this far, like and subscribe on YouTube or follow and leave a review on your favorite podcasting platform so you don't miss any future episodes.